JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks on August 19, 2007, 10:47:33 AM
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Lately there's been a lot of reminiscing about the poster Yephora and discussion of how we might bring her back. I do not really know her, but everybody says she was an absolutely great member who contributed a ton. I will do a post check of her sometime to see what she was like (she left right as I joined so I did not get to know her), but I wanted to offer a dissenting opinion about her.
If Yephora abandoned JTF because she was offended by the rantings of one nutty poster, does she really have what it takes to cut it as a Kahanist?
Let's think about this. Guys, imagine DownwithIslam and I ditching JTF because we are tired of Dominater and Thunderbolt. Is that rational? Is it a fair response to punish the entire movement and to cut of our nose to spite our face because of a couple of trolls? Are we that thin-skinned? Rabbi Kahane (zt"l) and Chaim have had to endure every kind of condemnation and some of the most hateful bile and slander imaginable from thousands upon thousands of real-life opponents. Rabbi Kahane actually GAVE HIS LIFE for a people which, by and large, hated him, and Chaim ben Pesach gave several years of his life for two million Soviet Jews (again which, like Natan Sharansky [ys"vz], have shown very little gratitude). Should we really spend a lot of energy on somebody who abandoned us over something so ridiculous?
If Yephora left us because she didn't like seeing an insane member (who has now been banned) interact on the forum, what would she do if being a Kahanist got her real-life insults/obscenities/threats? How would she react if arrested for her beliefs? Persecuted? Tortured? When somebody becomes a Kahanist, it is a life-changing event; if you fall away, then you were never really part of us to begin with. It's understood that being one may very well put your entire life in jeopardy and that you may well be called upon to be a martyr for Israel and the Jewish people. In all fairness, do I know for a fact that I have what it takes for that? No. Do I know that anybody here does (with the exception of Jimmy Sullivan)? No. But Yephora's actions have put an especially large question mark next to her name in the area of perseverance and toughness.
Please note I am not saying Yephora is a bad person, just that I don't really think she is meant to be a Kahanist and that perhaps the parting-of-ways was for the best. Good luck in trying to bring her back, but I am not sure that somebody who put her petty quarrel with FOTL above the cause would wish to. If anybody disagrees with me, oh well. These are my two cents.
Chaimfan
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Chaim ben Pesach disagrees with you. ;)
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All he said is he wishes she would come back. (Turns out I heard his response. :))
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I got a suggestion for you. Don't question other peoples' Kahanist values or ability to support the cause. As for Yephora, I can understand her leaving over FoTL. His evil agenda was tolerated far too long here and he was even coddled at times while he spewed his insane ideas. When that kind of thing isn't dealt with immediately, it gives the impression the board leadership is approving of it. Thankfully that is not the case now.
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Chaimfan I deff hear what you are saying. I have a slightly different take on this though. While I totally agree that it was insane for her to leave we have to take all the support we can get. Their are many people who would agree with jtf but they would not be willing to be arrested pushing our policies. You see what I am saying? While yephora might not be a hardcore member, she did agree with us and simply made the mistake of leaving. It shows that she wasn't that loyal but I still would want her to come back. For instance I don't agree with Chaim on some of his religious beliefs and his goal of making Israel a religious run state but I barely mention it. I don't just leave jtf because of it as I know it is far more important to get the muzzies out and save innocent people lives. Jtf is not a cult and people can have differences of opinion. Chaimfan I have to say that you are such a loyal member of JTF so people will always seem lacking in loyalty compared to you. You know I mean this very seriously with some of the attacks you have taken and you still remain loyal.
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Thundertroll, nobody gives a rat's anus for your opinions.
DownwithIslam--thanks again, your remarks are so very kind. Your encouragement always means so much to me. I appreciate that you think so highly of me, but should you? Like I said, I don't know for a fact right now that I would be willing to lay down my life for the cause if push came to shove. I certainly would LIKE to think that, but nobody really can answer that until they are tested, you know. I don't think any of us can make boasts and proclamations about what has not happened yet.
My point was twofold: (a) I don't agree with fawning over/sucking up to people who were never that committed to us to begin with and (b) that if I'm not even sure that you and I would lay down our lives for Kahanism, then I REALLY doubt that somebody like Yephora would. I know that we need all the supporters we can get, and if she does come back I would of course welcome her, but she has a lot of proving to do and it would be difficult for me, at least, to trust her with anything important here. I most definitely would prefer dedicated, hardcore members, even if few in number, to wishywashy ones who are constantly feeling tempted to leave.
Chaimfan
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I deff hear you. I still think that many people who leave or whatever agree with us and would support us if it was needed. I do hope she comes back and if me and Chaimfan would leave when we didn't like a poster, we would of been gone long ago. She should of realized that this is a public forum and as long as you agree with the leader then you should stay.
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Thundertroll, nobody gives a rat's anus for your opinions.
Look who's talking.
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She should come back, and be welcomed, but I don't think she should be BEGGED to return. Scriabin or whoever it is is in contact with her should send her a simple email asking her to return and that's it.
I would like for her to toughen up and become a devoted member, but let's face it--not everybody has that kind of character. I would like to compare her to Sarah. When she first came here people flamed the living crap out of her (for promoting Islam and attacking Israel), but she stuck it out and because of that she came to see the light and is now one of our most loyal and committed supporters. Yephora didn't face one hundredth of that resistance--in fact, nobody flamed her at all. She just was weak-willed and couldn't handle seeing some crazy posts. (Gee whiz... what does she do at work when her boss yells at her or the guys in the other room are telling a dirty joke?)
So, yeah, I want her to come back, but I doubt she will and I doubt she has the emotional makeup to stick a lot of stuff out.
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You have no idea why Yephora left the forum.
I can assure you it has nothing to do with FOTL.
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Scriabin, can you tell me why she left? I honestly thought it was because of fotl. I was busy when the ordeal with her happened and I was only coming on a few times a week. Can you seriously tell me why she left? Also I was hoping everyone could give Chaimfan some respect.
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Scriabin, Chaim himself said that she left because of Fruit and he said that everybody knows that is why she left.
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C.F. PLEASE stop calling insulting Thunderbolt and calling him names. What good can this bring?
Yephora says that she left because of posters like FOTL.
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Jeffguy, I have sent you infinite emails and PMs about Thunderbolt. The guy refuses to quit. I have had it with him and do not know what else to do.
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Jeffguy, I have sent you infinite emails and PMs about Thunderbolt. The guy refuses to quit. I have had it with him and do not know what else to do.
I can't stand newman, but I do my best not to make a fuss, you're not going to get on with everyone in life, live with it.
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Jeffguy, I have sent you infinite emails and PMs about Thunderbolt. The guy refuses to quit. I have had it with him and do not know what else to do.
I can't stand newman, but I do my best not to make a fuss, you're not going to get on with everyone in life, live with it.
The feeling's mutual, Poindexter!
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Jeffguy, I have sent you infinite emails and PMs about Thunderbolt. The guy refuses to quit. I have had it with him and do not know what else to do.
I know, C.F. Both of you have to stop. I have talked to him too. It has to stop somewhere so someone has to be the bigger person and end the fighting. It's embarrassing to the forum to go back and forth like this.
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I agree with Jeff. We're all adults here, and if we disagree with each other, we should at least be civil about it.
Regarding Yephora, I never had any dealings with her. Who knows why she really left? And who cares? If she hasn't responded to people's emails, the what's the point of posting about her? Forget about it. No doubt, she was bright, but we're not going to please everyone.
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I'm tired of these so-called Kahanists proclaiming they're "better" than others. Why are you a better Kahanist than others? What gives you the right to attack someone else's credentials? Because you get off calling blacks [censored], apes and baboons?? Because you think all arabs should be killed or raped? That makes you a good Kahanist? You call me a troll because I attack your evil opinions for what they are. Kahanism is not fascism. You guys aren't Kahanists. You guys are fascists.
The NERVE of Chaimfan to portray himself as a victim after the scummy things he says about people. This is just typical of an evil individual to portray himself repeatedly as an innocent victim while saying evil things and working behind the scenes in a cowardly way.
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You have no idea why Yephora left the forum.
I can assure you it has nothing to do with FOTL.
I would like to see Yephora come back also she had JTF values and was a touch of class on the forum. I agree with Scriabin their was more that made her leave than FOTL. As I remember it was another member who said some really nasty stuff about Moses. The worse part of the whole thing was after they caused Yephora to leave they took down the post that insulted Moses and left FOTL holding the bag for her leaving. She might have had issues with FTOL's posts but that was not the main reason why she left. As far as begging her to come back I think its more like coaxing her. Someone I know messaged her about coming back through YouTube and she said it wasn't likely she would return.
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I'm tired of these so-called Kahanists proclaiming they're "better" than others. Why are you a better Kahanist than others? What gives you the right to attack someone else's credentials? Because you get off calling blacks schvartzas, apes and baboons?? Because you think all arabs should be killed or raped? That makes you a good Kahanist? You call me a troll because I attack your evil opinions for what they are. Kahanism is not fascism. You guys aren't Kahanists. You guys are fascists.
The NERVE of Chaimfan to portray himself as a victim after the scummy things he says about people. This is just typical of an evil individual to portray himself repeatedly as an innocent victim while saying evil things and working behind the scenes in a cowardly way.
Mods, this speaks for itself. I have nothing to add to this.
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Even if that is the real reason Yephora left, I still think she should have toughed it out and let the guy who insulted Moses have it. She should have stuck up for this saintly prophet and not fled.
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I'm tired of these so-called Kahanists proclaiming they're "better" than others. Why are you a better Kahanist than others? What gives you the right to attack someone else's credentials? Because you get off calling blacks schvartzas, apes and baboons?? Because you think all arabs should be killed or raped? That makes you a good Kahanist? You call me a troll because I attack your evil opinions for what they are. Kahanism is not fascism. You guys aren't Kahanists. You guys are fascists.
The NERVE of Chaimfan to portray himself as a victim after the scummy things he says about people. This is just typical of an evil individual to portray himself repeatedly as an innocent victim while saying evil things and working behind the scenes in a cowardly way.
Who gives you the right to judge who is and who is not a Kahanist? Isn't that part of your own argument?
I seriously hope you aren't referring to JTF, thunderbolt. You are taking a lot out of context. Picking out a handful of people on the forum and applying that to everyone at JTF is not right.
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I am not going to respond to anything Thunderbolt says from here on out. Period. I have no need to. His posts say all that is needed.
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I'm tired of these so-called Kahanists proclaiming they're "better" than others. Why are you a better Kahanist than others? What gives you the right to attack someone else's credentials? Because you get off calling blacks schvartzas, apes and baboons?? Because you think all arabs should be killed or raped? That makes you a good Kahanist? You call me a troll because I attack your evil opinions for what they are. Kahanism is not fascism. You guys aren't Kahanists. You guys are fascists.
The NERVE of Chaimfan to portray himself as a victim after the scummy things he says about people. This is just typical of an evil individual to portray himself repeatedly as an innocent victim while saying evil things and working behind the scenes in a cowardly way.
Who gives you the right to judge who is and who is not a Kahanist? Isn't that part of your own argument?
I seriously hope you aren't referring to JTF, thunderbolt. You are taking a lot out of context. Picking out a handful of people on the forum and applying that to everyone at JTF is not right.
Thunderbolt isn't the problem here Jeff. He's right. RABBI KAHANE NEVER WOULD HAVE SPOKEN IN THE WAY THAT DOWNWITHISLAM, CF, NEWMAN AND OTHERS DO.
He was too smart for that.
We'll NEVER be a mass movement so long as we support such inflammatory rhetoric.
Rabbi Kahane was called a Nazi, and he only wanted to throw the Arabs out!! Imagine what we'll be called?
And Chaim wants to be Prime Minister of Israel?
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God bless you, Scriabin.
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Hehe, Rabbi Kahane spent his whole life attacking muslims and shvartzas. He never used foul language but talked very harshly against muslims and shvartzas. He founded the jdl to deal with shvartzas by the way.
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I agree, in some ways he was more extreme than Chaim. Rabbi Meir Kahane (zt"l) advocated kicking all Arabs out of Israel. Chaim simply says we should pay them to leave.
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I don't think we can be expected to speak moderately against shvartzas. Doesn't everyone remember the super funny antishvartza videos chaim has made over the years which I thoroughly enjoyed?
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I don't think we can be expected to speak moderately against shvartzas. Doesn't everyone remember the super funny antishvartza videos chaim has made over the years which I thoroughly enjoyed?
I love them too, but I'm talking about a mass movement. We cannot have both in my opinion.
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I don't think we can be expected to speak moderately against shvartzas. Doesn't everyone remember the super funny antishvartza videos chaim has made over the years which I thoroughly enjoyed?
I love them too, but I'm talking about a mass movement. We cannot have both in my opinion.
Scriabin, I respectfully disagree. I think the reason JTF has attracted so many more members than other kahanist groups is because of the way he speaks. The shvartza stories attract people. If you enjoyed them then they were good.
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I have to agree with Scriabin on this one.
We really have to use wisdom and good judgement with this.
Remember when Chaim talked about the Jewish people not being ready for a king on this last weeks Ask JTF? Remember where he said that if he said he was running for Prime Minister that most people would be ok with this? But if he said he wanted to be KING (like King David... a righteous government for Israel in the Bible) that the Jews in Israel would freak out? Same thing.
It doesn't mean you're wrong... it means we have to be careful to give things in a way that is smart. If we want to build a mass movement, we have to use good judgement and give an argument as to WHY we feel the way we do. If we just start making homo-erotic attacks about clitorises on every Muslim that comes in the forum or if we start calling all blacks [censored] s, then how on earth are we going to build a mass movement? This turns 99% of the civilized world off.
We have to take steps. We have to be examples. If we come off as foaming at the mouth, angry racists who want to kill muslim children... then we're just going to scare off new members. Seriously. Isn't this obvious?
Everyone asks "what can I do? can I make fliers or something?"... we can all start acting more like the wise sage who people respect. We can all do well by presenting solid facts and arguments over rapid fire name calling. I'm not saying there's no place for name calling... but we have to temper our passion and zeal with wisdom for the GREATER CAUSE.
I think that the members are amazing, wonderful, and smart but we aren't going to convince anyone if we can't stop fighting among ourselves. Want to help JTF? Grow some tough skin and start acting more like Chaim ben Pesach.
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I don't think we can be expected to speak moderately against shvartzas. Doesn't everyone remember the super funny antishvartza videos chaim has made over the years which I thoroughly enjoyed?
I love them too, but I'm talking about a mass movement. We cannot have both in my opinion.
Scriabin, I respectfully disagree. I think the reason JTF has attracted so many more members than other kahanist groups is because of the way he speaks. The shvartza stories attract people. If you enjoyed them then they were good.
I love them...and frankly, miss them. In fact, some time ago, I asked Chaim why he seemed to be toning down his schwarze stories. It was the schwarze stories that turned me on to JTF in the first place. But I'm an 'extremist.' There are many people who are turned off by this kind of stuff. Not us, but many nonetheless.
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Yeah but Jeffguy, Chaim has never been moderate in his dealings with shvartzas. Their have been instances when I literally was rolling inlaughter as Chaim made fun of shvartzas. You know that as well as I do. I respectfully disagree with you and I think that once we start softening up, we will attract members we dont want. But I do understand your point of view and I will try to tone it down a bit. Sometimes it is hard to do that when you speak about these jew haters.
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Yeah but Jeffguy, Chaim has never been moderate in his dealings with shvartzas. Their have been instances when I literally was rolling inlaughter as Chaim made fun of shvartzas. You know that as well as I do. I respectfully disagree with you and I think that once we start softening up, we will attract members we dont want. But I do understand your point of view and I will try to tone it down a bit. Sometimes it is hard to do that when you speak about these jew haters.
"A good Jewish fist has to be attached to a good Jewish head." Rabbi Kahane
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Scriabin I am so happy to hear you enjoyed them and it gives me hope that I can convert you to my mindset. Can't you see my point of view as well as I see yours. I totally see where you and jeffguy are coming from and I too want JTF to grow. Those long posts with people fighting with each other are insane and embarrassing to the cause. I think just as you enjoyed the videos with the shvartza impersonations so did everyone else. I think the reason jtf is not a mass movement is simply due to lack of exposure, not because people were exposed and didn't like the fact that we made fun of shvartzzas.
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Yeah but Jeffguy, Chaim has never been moderate in his dealings with shvartzas. Their have been instances when I literally was rolling inlaughter as Chaim made fun of shvartzas. You know that as well as I do. I respectfully disagree with you and I think that once we start softening up, we will attract members we dont want. But I do understand your point of view and I will try to tone it down a bit. Sometimes it is hard to do that when you speak about these jew haters.
DownwithIslam, I'm not saying you are wrong. Please don't misunderstand. You know where I stand on the issues and we agree more than we disagree.
But Chaim always present facts along with his funny stories. He spends more time talking about WHY, WHO, WHEN than on mmm hmmm rants.
He spends a tremendous amount of time explaining what the rational arguments are. If you summed up all the time he made funny shvartza stories, you'd find that he spends more time explaining what is going on, the history, facts and statistics. You get the impression that Chaim KNOWS what he's talking about because Chaim is obviously a giant who displays a tremendous amount of insight and wisdom.
We need to be focused on balance. We need to provide the logic behind our rants. That's what the forum is for and that's why it's so crucial to our movement.
Does that make a little more sense? I should have explained a little clearer. Chaim is made of steel. When people insult him, he doesn't waste a lot of time on it. When we spend too much time defending ourselves or making fun (over presenting facts and logic), it makes us look like we aren't sure of ourselves and that we can only hurl insults because we don't really know what we are talking about. THAT'S the difference.
That's why Rabbi Kahane said "Those who cannot debate, defame." It's not that we can never launch a verbal assault on our enemies that want to see us dead, it's that we have to have the balance to spend more time with rational debate so that people understand why.
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Yeah but Jeffguy, Chaim has never been moderate in his dealings with shvartzas. Their have been instances when I literally was rolling inlaughter as Chaim made fun of shvartzas. You know that as well as I do. I respectfully disagree with you and I think that once we start softening up, we will attract members we dont want. But I do understand your point of view and I will try to tone it down a bit. Sometimes it is hard to do that when you speak about these jew haters.
DownwithIslam, I'm not saying you are wrong. Please don't misunderstand. You know where I stand on the issues and we agree more than we disagree.
But Chaim always present facts along with his funny stories. He spends more time talking about WHY, WHO, WHEN than on mmm hmmm rants.
He spends a tremendous amount of time explaining what the rational arguments are. If you summed up all the time he made funny shvartza stories, you'd find that he spends more time explaining what is going on, the history, facts and statistics. You get the impression that Chaim KNOWS what he's talking about because Chaim is obviously a giant who displays a tremendous amount of insight and wisdom.
Well said!
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Jeffguy I agree with you and that makes sense. Waisting time with childish arguments is stupid hehe
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In my opinion (most) blacks are just like Muslims. They are beyond any help and hope. I do not think Chaim should stop making fun of them. The righteous blacks out there will know he is right and come to us.
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I agree with you chaimfan.