Muslim charged w/raping Jew

[Zelhar]

Two pieces of excrement, but in this case I think the Jewish girl is worse.

You think that the girl who conceded to a first date sex is worse than the scumbag who seduced her ?

[Zelhar]

Zelhar,

You know I think you are great.  I can't see your point here.  She went to the police because of a moral outrage??  I mean I'm smiling.  Her moral outrage was not getting a shidduch from a match that would have ever led to one..were he a Jew.  There is something very wrong with this woman, her reasoning, her logic, her sense of what's right...all very much off

You don't understand this correctly. She was desperate, He just wanted to exploit here. She made a mistake, He perpetrated a crime. I think she made an excellent choice by pressing charge against the Arab slime.

It's not a unique situation. Arabs have been doing this for a long time. I don't means for just one time seduction, they have been using it to snatch Jewish women and make them their slaves. Virtually in every testimony of a Jewish women seduced into marrying an Arab is mentioned how the Arab falsely presented himself as a nice guy, successful, and initially- as Jew or at least as non-Arab. Speaking in Hebrew and not a word in Arabic. As soon as the woman come home with him to his village, she is virtually a treated as a slave by him and his family.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I don't know about this ruling.... Apparently it was consentual sex but he was in violation of the law which says that one cannot decieve another in order to obtain sex from them... This arab pretended he was a Jew in order to get sex... I think the woman is a complete whore for having sex only hours after meeting the scumbag arab... She should be in prison too... By Torah they were adulterers and should suffer the penalty...

Not to sound heavy handed, but she has some chutzpah.  I mean this guy is a louse, but she's a fool.  To make matters worse, she doesn't have the good sense to be quiet about it.  Everyone makes mistakes, but not everyone is arrogant enough to think they deserve the time of a court, plow full steam ahead and sue.  Anyway, he lied, so I guess he'll do the time--literally.

<<

When I was 19 I told a girl I was 21 (she was 23).   After we had sex I told her the truth.  I would hate to think I could have been charged with rape for that.

But maybe you should be.  Just food for thought.

Thank G-d people like you are not making decisions on prosecuting people.  You cannot prosecute people for violating laws that do not exist.  The day you start doing that you are on your way to an authoritarian government.

Violate laws that do not exist ? If the girl had lodged a compliant then in practically any country it would have been considered rape and charged as such. Get it straight. Consent through false pretenses is a criminal offence in every democratic country (even in India, nothing to do with Jewish/Israeli laws).

So if any of you guys are lying to get laid, I strongly suggest you stop immediately because if the girl complains to the police you will be up $hit creek without a paddle.

Some reading material for you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_regarding_rape

Section 265(3)
Consent

(3) For the purposes of this section, no consent is obtained where the complainant submits or does not resist by reason of (a) the application of force to the complainant or to a person other than the complainant; (b) threats or fear of the application of force to the complainant or to a person other than the complainant; (c) fraud; or (d) the exercise of authority.

Wow, good points, Hindu Zionist.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

It's not a unique situation. Arabs have been doing this for a long time. I don't means for just one time seduction, they have been using it to snatch Jewish women and make them their slaves.

Yes, we all know that, but this is not a classic example of this. It is one thing if a woman is deceived via taqqiyah into having a relationship with an Arab, but quite another if she is looking for a quickie casual encounter. This woman didn't want any kind of relationship. She was just looking to get laid. If it was indeed a Jewish man and not an Arab she thought she was screwing, it would have made no difference at all.

[Ulli]

Hang the Arab - case finished.

[MassuhDGoodName]

Re:  "You think that the girl who conceded to a first date sex is worse than the scumbag who seduced her ? "

Absolutely.

She should have put out before the first date.

That way, the A-rab would've known in advance what he was getting into, and could've made a sound decision whether or not he wanted to spend any money on her by taking her on a date!

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

She should have put out before the first date.

Don't joke around about that, there are lots of women who do exactly that.

[MassuhDGoodName]

Court testimony further reveals:

The young girl is completely innocent !

She was duped into having sex because the A-rab told her that he was Pee-Wee Herman and promised to take her to Hollywood and 'put her in the movies'!

[MassuhDGoodName]

Re:  "...I don't know that women have less of a sex drive, just that they need to suppress it more.  They are much more likely to see sex as an emotional experience than a physical experience, they are culturally trained to not just jump into bed with any Tom, Dick or Harry, and they are the ones who have to worry about getting pregnant.  So it is much easier for them to suppress their sex drive... "

Question:  How do you get a Jewish girl to stop having sex?

Answer:  Marry her!

                               

[MassuhDGoodName]

Re:  "Don't joke around about that, there are lots of women who do exactly that. "

And I hope that you don't have anything to do with any of them.

Unless, of course, they've first attached some photos of their genitals to a text message and sent it to you by cell phone.

                                             

[The One and Only Mo]

You guys are the missing the point. She acted like a total whore, committed a sin, and is now looked at as the VICTIM? I'm sorry, premarital sex is an aveira, and maybe next time she won't act like a such a slut.

As for the guy, it doesn't change how I feel about Arabs. I can't hate them any more then I already do, so it makes no difference if one of them kills, rapes, lies, steals, breathes, farts, or blinks. I want Hashem to punish them just as much as I did before reading the story.

I think you have hit the nail on the head.  She would have been perfectly happy to have casual sex with a Jew or maybe some other non Arab.  It became rape, in her mind, when she found out the man she consented to have casual sex with was an Arab.  Having casual sex with a Jew would hardly be virtuous.  I can understand her being upset by the fact that she was deceived but that hardly makes it rape.

No, what made it "rape" in her mind is that she was deceived into having sexual relations on false pretenses.   Maybe that's not "rape" per se, but maybe it is wrong!   Indeed, I suggest it is wrong.   

You say she wanted to have premarital sex with a Jew.  Well, that may not be exactly "kosher," but does she not have a right to make that choice and to limit herself to just with a Jew and not with an Arab pretending to be one so he can "get some?"  Or with some other faker who is lying in order to get in bed with her.   Sounds pretty debatable to me, not open and shut "the woman is wrong" like you suggest.    I think what is behind that is you are trying to defend the behavior of deceiving a woman into sexual relations.    Personally I think that's immoral and slimy.   I obviously don't promote or agree with sexual relations outside of marriage, but a man can engage in that without deceiving people like a two-bit con-artist.   I think the deception makes it more immoral and also reflects obvious weakness on his part like any time someone has to lie.

This has nothing to do with him. He's an Arab, all Arabs are filth and nothing can make them worse. It's the fact that she sinned in the first place and it's better 1 Jew do that than 2 Jews. She was wrong for acting promiscuously, at least now she's not dragging another Jew down with her.

Yeah but I was relating this case to Jews and goyim in general in a theoretical sense, speaking about ethics.   

Goyim could do whatever they want.

That's not true, they have 7 laws of Noah... That means they have ethical requirements.

No, no, I mean outside the sheva mitzvos.

[Secularbeliever]

I don't know about this ruling.... Apparently it was consentual sex but he was in violation of the law which says that one cannot decieve another in order to obtain sex from them... This arab pretended he was a Jew in order to get sex... I think the woman is a complete whore for having sex only hours after meeting the scumbag arab... She should be in prison too... By Torah they were adulterers and should suffer the penalty...

Not to sound heavy handed, but she has some chutzpah.  I mean this guy is a louse, but she's a fool.  To make matters worse, she doesn't have the good sense to be quiet about it.  Everyone makes mistakes, but not everyone is arrogant enough to think they deserve the time of a court, plow full steam ahead and sue.  Anyway, he lied, so I guess he'll do the time--literally.

<<

When I was 19 I told a girl I was 21 (she was 23).   After we had sex I told her the truth.  I would hate to think I could have been charged with rape for that.

But maybe you should be.  Just food for thought.

Thank G-d people like you are not making decisions on prosecuting people.  You cannot prosecute people for violating laws that do not exist.  The day you start doing that you are on your way to an authoritarian government.

Violate laws that do not exist ? If the girl had lodged a compliant then in practically any country it would have been considered rape and charged as such. Get it straight. Consent through false pretenses is a criminal offence in every democratic country (even in India, nothing to do with Jewish/Israeli laws).

So if any of you guys are lying to get laid, I strongly suggest you stop immediately because if the girl complains to the police you will be up $hit creek without a paddle.

Some reading material for you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_regarding_rape

Section 265(3)
Consent

(3) For the purposes of this section, no consent is obtained where the complainant submits or does not resist by reason of (a) the application of force to the complainant or to a person other than the complainant; (b) threats or fear of the application of force to the complainant or to a person other than the complainant; (c) fraud; or (d) the exercise of authority.

LOL find me one guy who was charged with rape for lying about how much money he made, even whether he was married, or where he lived.  Casual sex is very much a buyer beware type of endeavor.  The only cases of people being prosecuted are for lying about HIV status or something where a woman suffers objective loss.  Having sex with someone who she later learns is not all he claims to be is not a criminally punishable losss.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

LOL find me one guy who was charged with rape for lying about how much money he made, even whether he was married, or where he lived.  Casual sex is very much a buyer beware type of endeavor.  The only cases of people being prosecuted are for lying about HIV status or something where a woman suffers objective loss.  Having sex with someone who she later learns is not all he claims to be is not a criminally punishable losss.

Yes. What should be "criminally punishable" is putting out for a complete and utter stranger.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

LOL find me one guy who was charged with rape for lying about how much money he made, even whether he was married, or where he lived.  Casual sex is very much a buyer beware type of endeavor.  The only cases of people being prosecuted are for lying about HIV status or something where a woman suffers objective loss.  Having sex with someone who she later learns is not all he claims to be is not a criminally punishable losss.

Yes. What should be "criminally punishable" is putting out for a complete and utter stranger.

By that logic, the guy "put out" for a complete and utter stranger too and should also be punishable.  Why do you limit the offense to the woman?  That's ridiculous.

[Secularbeliever]

LOL find me one guy who was charged with rape for lying about how much money he made, even whether he was married, or where he lived.  Casual sex is very much a buyer beware type of endeavor.  The only cases of people being prosecuted are for lying about HIV status or something where a woman suffers objective loss.  Having sex with someone who she later learns is not all he claims to be is not a criminally punishable losss.

Yes. What should be "criminally punishable" is putting out for a complete and utter stranger.

By that logic, the guy "put out" for a complete and utter stranger too and should also be punishable.  Why do you limit the offense to the woman?  That's ridiculous.

No Brennan Fan expects more from women than from men.  While that may sound odd in our politically correct feminized world, it is based on the old theory that women are the regulators and restrainers of sexual behavior. 

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

LOL find me one guy who was charged with rape for lying about how much money he made, even whether he was married, or where he lived.  Casual sex is very much a buyer beware type of endeavor.  The only cases of people being prosecuted are for lying about HIV status or something where a woman suffers objective loss.  Having sex with someone who she later learns is not all he claims to be is not a criminally punishable losss.

Yes. What should be "criminally punishable" is putting out for a complete and utter stranger.

By that logic, the guy "put out" for a complete and utter stranger too and should also be punishable.  Why do you limit the offense to the woman?  That's ridiculous.

No Brennan Fan expects more from women than from men.  While that may sound odd in our politically correct feminized world, it is based on the old theory that women are the regulators and restrainers of sexual behavior. 

That's not expecting more from women.  What you're saying is simply blaming them for the problem and giving men a free pass.  If women are at fault for having relations freely with men, then men are equally at fault for doing the same with women.   

[muman613]

LOL find me one guy who was charged with rape for lying about how much money he made, even whether he was married, or where he lived.  Casual sex is very much a buyer beware type of endeavor.  The only cases of people being prosecuted are for lying about HIV status or something where a woman suffers objective loss.  Having sex with someone who she later learns is not all he claims to be is not a criminally punishable losss.

Yes. What should be "criminally punishable" is putting out for a complete and utter stranger.

By that logic, the guy "put out" for a complete and utter stranger too and should also be punishable.  Why do you limit the offense to the woman?  That's ridiculous.

No Brennan Fan expects more from women than from men.  While that may sound odd in our politically correct feminized world, it is based on the old theory that women are the regulators and restrainers of sexual behavior. 

That's not expecting more from women.  What you're saying is simply blaming them for the problem and giving men a free pass.  If women are at fault for having relations freely with men, then men are equally at fault for doing the same with women.   

I agree, the man is the one who is responsible for the destruction caused by his wandering eye... A wise man will learn to restrain his impulses and restrict what he views with his eyes. Woman who dress provacatively are guilty on their own for the violation of modesty, but the man who acts on his immoral sex drive is the real sinner...

[Secularbeliever]

That's not expecting more from women.  What you're saying is simply blaming them for the problem and giving men a free pass.  If women are at fault for having relations freely with men, then men are equally at fault for doing the same with women.<<

Clearly it is expecting more from women.  It is saying that we expect men to be unable to restrain themselves and women need to restrain them.  It is saying that women and men are different, have a different nature and play different roles in society.  Again it sounds odd in these days of gender equality as a religious tenet of the politically correct society but it was certainly believed when I grew up and it was the basis of society for most of history.   
 
 
 

[muman613]

That's not expecting more from women.  What you're saying is simply blaming them for the problem and giving men a free pass.  If women are at fault for having relations freely with men, then men are equally at fault for doing the same with women.<<

Clearly it is expecting more from women.  It is saying that we expect men to be unable to restrain themselves and women need to restrain them.  It is saying that women and men are different, have a different nature and play different roles in society.  Again it sounds odd in these days of gender equality as a religious tenet of the politically correct society but it was certainly believed when I grew up and it was the basis of society for most of history.   
 
 
 

Does not sound like the Jewish view in my opinion. I have heard it said that Christianity has blamed the woman for all immorality due to the sin of the Fruit of the Tree of Knowledge {Eitz HaDat}... In Judaism we don't have such a stigma on the woman due to the 'original sin' doctrine.


According to Jewish belief the woman is of higher spiritual level than the man. The women were not involved in the Sin of the Golden Calf, and the women were meritorious for donating the mirrors they used to pretty themselves to the building of the Mishkan. The women did not die during the 40 years in the wilderness due to their merit.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

That's not expecting more from women.  What you're saying is simply blaming them for the problem and giving men a free pass.  If women are at fault for having relations freely with men, then men are equally at fault for doing the same with women.<

Clearly it is expecting more from women.  It is saying that we expect men to be unable to restrain themselves and women need to restrain them.
 

God does not expect men to be unable to restrain themselves.  Everyone has free choice, men included.  And everyone is supposed to display self-control.   Men are expected to restrain negative urges, and women are too.  There are sexual prohibitions on men.   So it's not just the tenet of today's "religion" political correctness.   

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

No Brennan Fan expects more from women than from men.  While that may sound odd in our politically correct feminized world, it is based on the old theory that women are the regulators and restrainers of sexual behavior. 

Basically.

I think I explained my logic clearly several times--and I am not in any way condoning what the slimy Arab did. It goes without saying he needs to be booted out of the Holy Land (or worse)--but that will never happen. I do think that a Jewish woman has more expected of her than an Arab man, plainly and simply. Answer the question--who angers you worse, Sheik Nasrallah or Bobby Fischer? Who of those two is more perverse and wicked in the light of their backgrounds?

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

If women are at fault for having relations freely with men, then men are equally at fault for doing the same with women.   

It depends on what kind of sex is involved. I have known scumbag men who are master psychological manipulators (what Lisa would call "alpha male" types) who have the natural ability to cause any woman to fall in love with them, and then put out. That's one thing. On the other hand, a woman who goes about trolling for casual sex is an entirely different ballgame--not only is that a sexual sin, but it involves quite a bit of perversion of nature. Answer the question: what is worse--a man who tries to get women in the sack (which sadly most secular men do at one point or another in their lives), or a man who seeks sex with men? Exactly. That is the distinction that I have been trying to get at.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

G-d does not expect men to be unable to restrain themselves.

Amen

Everyone has free choice, men included.

Who disputed this?

And everyone is supposed to display self-control.

Yes, I agree fully

Men are expected to restrain negative urges, and women are too.

Do you not agree that there is a hierarchy of sin in the universe? Some offenses are more wrong than others. I know for a fact that Judaism makes a distinction between sins against G-d and sins against man. There are two levels of sexual sin in my opinion--those of excess and unrestrained appetite, and those that involve a perversion of nature. A healthy man is designed to be constantly libidinous; this does not mean that it is acceptable for him to act it out constantly of course, but it is how men were built for a reason. Unfortunately this does lead to men trying to sleep with everything that moves. I, you, Bill Clinton, and the martians know that. A woman is designed to view sex as an act of deep emotional intimacy and bonding; if you think I am being antiquated and prudish, go talk to 75 random girls on a dating site and ask them what they look forward to most in marriage, and what their view of sex is. A woman is simply not designed to constantly desire casual sex. For her to do so involves more than just not restraining her natural urges--it requires that she go out of her way to exchange the natural use of her body for the unnatural, much like what homosexuality is. Do you not think that homosexual sex is worse than immoral heterosexual sex?

There are sexual prohibitions on men.   So it's not just the tenet of today's "religion" political correctness.

Once again, nobody disagreed. If you want to execute this Arab slimeball for sleeping with a Jewish girl, I certainly will not complain. But I think this woman has a lot of nerve.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

If women are at fault for having relations freely with men, then men are equally at fault for doing the same with women.   

It depends on what kind of sex is involved. I have known scumbag men who are master psychological manipulators (what Lisa would call "alpha male" types) who have the natural ability to cause any woman to fall in love with them, and then put out. That's one thing. On the other hand, a woman who goes about trolling for casual sex is an entirely different ballgame--not only is that a sexual sin, but it involves quite a bit of perversion of nature. Answer the question: what is worse--a man who tries to get women in the sack (which sadly most secular men do at one point or another in their lives), or a man who seeks sex with men? Exactly. That is the distinction that I have been trying to get at.

How did homosexuals get into this discussion?

I still don't agree to your basic premise.   IF having "casual sex" is a crime, it involves TWO offenders, not one.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Everyone has free choice, men included.

Who disputed this?

Secular Believer did.

There are sexual prohibitions on men.   So it's not just the tenet of today's "religion" political correctness.

Once again, nobody disagreed. If you want to execute this Arab slimeball for sleeping with a Jewish girl, I certainly will not complain. But I think this woman has a lot of nerve.

Actually secular believer did, and he purported to speak in your name or at least explain your position.  So perhaps you and him do not agree.