Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Asking advice of Tzaddik (* What NOT to do)
Tag-MehirTzedek:
--- Quote from: muman613 on October 20, 2012, 10:56:18 PM ---but so do Sephardic Jews show such reverence to their Rebbes.
--- End quote ---
(Responding to reading this before going on and reading the rest)
Equally appalled. Doesn't matter for me if its Askenasi or Sefardi, I am against such things. By the way I do "bash" if you will what I see as deviant practices by "Kabbalists" which seem to have more influence in the Sefardi communities. Soo this is in no way a Sefardi vs. Askenasi debate.
But I'll move on.
muman613:
Here is the 1st blessing of Amidah...
Ba-ruch a-tah A-do-nai, E-lo-hei-nu vei-lo-hei a-vo-tei-nu, E-lo-hei Av-ra-ham, E-lo-hei Yitz-chak, Vei-lo-hei Ya-a-kov, Ha-eil Ha-Ga-dol Ha-Gi-bor v'Ha-No-rah, Eil El-yon, go-meil cha-sa-dim to-vim, ko-nei ha-kol, v'zo-cheir chas-dei a-vot, u-mei-vi go-eil liv-nei v'nei-hem l'ma-an sh'mo b'a-ha-vah.
Blessed are You, L-rd our G‑d and G‑d of our fathers, G‑d of Abraham, G‑d of Isaac and G‑d of Jacob, the great, mighty and awesome G‑d, exalted G‑d, who bestows bountiful kindness, who creates all things, who remembers the piety of the Patriarchs, and who, in love, brings a redeemer to their children's children, for the sake of His Name.
Me-lech o-zeir u-mo-shi-a u-ma-gein. Ba-ruch a-tah A-do-nai, ma-gein Av-raham.
O King, (You are) a helper, a savior and a shield. Blessed are You L-rd, Shield of Abraham.
It is clear here that we are davening in the merit of the patriarchs because we say "who remembers the piety of the Patriarchs"...
Tag-MehirTzedek:
--- Quote from: muman613 on October 20, 2012, 10:56:18 PM ---But I did some research and found that there are several Sephardic Rebbes who promised miracles, and stories about miracles performed by these Sephardic Rebbes, and the reverence of their disciples who would regularly travel to the graves of the Rebbe in order to pray in their merit. But this is the same thing that the Talmids of the Chassidic Rebbes do... So where is the rebuke against these Sephardic Rebbes? Why only rebuke against Chassidus and Chabad? That is what I find troubling."
--- End quote ---
First off Chabad unfortunately took it to a whole new level. Secondly, and you can go search my posts I did "attack" if you will these practices being done in the name of Torah with these soo-called "miracle workers.
Tag-MehirTzedek:
"His prayers led to many miracles and resulted in great kiddush Hashem. Many people also returned to their roots as a result of his influence."
Notice it is HIS prayers, and not Prayers TO him.
then you say
"Anyway, I agree that praying TO THE DEAD is forbidden by all authorities, and by common sense. What I often think is that because people don't understand why some daven at the grave of a tzadik is because they daven in the merit of the tzadik."
Then where is the argument, you are only agreeing with me, but I guess you have an issue if I'm not being fair enough with the "Askenasi vs. Sefardi" ?
Tag-MehirTzedek:
Here is a thread on some of the things happening in the and affecting the "Sefardi world" that I opened .
http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,63053.0.html
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