JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: mord on August 04, 2008, 07:41:29 PM
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any good debaters
http://forum.protestwarrior.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=7838
http://forum.protestwarrior.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=7820
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This guy GOP-buster is the prototype of an arrogant western selfhater. He really thinks, that he has the solution for all world problems. Weird guy.
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Why do we bother focusing on this?
We can spend all of eternity trying to debate anti-semites and delusional people.
If anything by debating them we feed their appetite to continue spreading disinformation.
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I made a token appearence to back your words Mord. ;)
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any good debaters
http://forum.protestwarrior.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=7838
http://forum.protestwarrior.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=7820
MORD--->> ;D BTW, I am Jewish and a big supporter of Israel. But I am worried that Israel will not exist much longer Sure Sure Chump- she WANTS them to not exist at all.
"btw, I am Jewish and a big supporter of Israel" WTF?
IF YOU ARE JEWISH, you dont 'support' Israel, YOU ARE Israel- whattttttt a jerk. Sorry Mord, but she is a REAL jerk. WHY doesent she just say that she is an American that likes to show Israel that they have weakness, and she LOVES THAT? People would get WAY more respect, if they were HONEST. She is an American? PLEASE! Mord! All that work you did, and she gave those Military Jewish Battle Commanders ZERO NO Honor- NONE.
'tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies....tell me tell me lies........" :D she is a "Jew" and I am Catherine Zeta Jones. ^-^
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Both Phesant and Marzutra gave perfect arguements that the cut and paster GOP buster could'nt answer.Little Josh Furman just ran ;D ;D
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Is it possible to criticize Israel without being anti-semitic?
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Is it possible to criticize Israel without being anti-semitic?
Absolutely! I do it all the time!!! ;)
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I wonder what peoples thoughts on this article are.
When Journalists Refuse To Tell The Truth About Israel
by: Robert Fisk
'Fear of being slandered as "anti-Semites" means we are abetting terrible deeds in the Middle East'
17 April 2001
What if we had supported the apartheid regime of South Africa against the majority black population? What if we had lauded the South African white leadership as "hard-line warriors" rather than racists? What if we had explained the shooting of 56 black protesters at Sharpeville as an understandable "security crackdown" by the South African police. And described black children shot by the police as an act of "child sacrifice" by their parents? What if we had called upon the "terrorist" ANC leadership to "control their own people".
Almost every day that is exactly the way we are playing the Israeli-Palestinian war. No matter how many youths are shot dead by the Israelis, no matter how many murders – by either side – and no matter how bloody the reputation of the Israeli Prime Minister, we are reporting this terrible conflict as if we supported the South African whites against the blacks. No, Israel is not South Africa (though it happily supported the apartheid regime) and no, the Palestinians are not the blacks of the shanty towns. But there's not much difference between Gaza and the black slums of Johannesburg; and there's not much difference between the tactics of the Israeli army in the occupied territories and that of the South African police. The apartheid regime had death squads, just as Israel has today. Yet even they did not use helicopter gunships and missiles.
Rarely since the Second World War has a people been so vilified as the Palestinians. And rarely has a people been so frequently excused and placated as the Israelis. Israeli embassies are now buttonholing editors around the world, saying that it's not fair to call Israel's Prime Minister "hard-line". And the reporters are falling into line.
Sharon, we are told, may turn into a pragmatist, another De Gaulle; in truth he's more like the French putschist generals in Algeria. They also used torture and massacred their Arab opponents. It needed an Israeli writer – Nehemia Strasler, in Ha'aretz – to point out that Sharon's career spells anything but peace. He voted against the peace treaty with Egypt in 1979. He voted against a withdrawal from southern Lebanon in 1985. He opposed Israel's participation in the Madrid peace conference in 1991. He opposed the Knesset plenum vote on the Oslo agreement in 1993. He abstained on a vote for peace with Jordan in 1994. He voted against the Hebron agreement in 1997. He condemned the manner of Israel's retreat from Lebanon in 2000. He is now building Jewish settlements on occupied Arab land – in total violation of international law at a faster rate than his predecessor.
Yet we are to believe that it is the corrupt, Parkinson's-haunted Yasser Arafat who is to blame for the war. He will not "control" his people. He is chastised by George Bush while his people are bestialised by the Israeli leadership. Rafael Eytan, the former Israeli chief of staff, used to talk of the Palestinians as "cockroaches in a glass jar". Menachem Begin called them "two-legged beasts". Rabbi Ovdia Yousef, the spiritual head of the Shas party, called them "serpents". In August last year, Ehud Barak called them "crocodiles". Last month, the Israeli tourism minister, Rehavem Zeevi, called Arafat a "scorpion". Even the South African regime never called the blacks by such vile names.
And woe betide the diplomat or journalist who points this out. Earlier this year, the Simon Wiesenthal Centre, in Paris, accused the Swedish president of the European Union of "encouraging anti-Jewish violence". To condemn Israel for "eliminating terrorists", the centre wrote in a letter to the Swedish prime minister, "recalls the allied argument during the Second World War, according to which bombing the railways leading to Auschwitz would encourage anti-Semitism among the Germans". Sweden was making "a unilateral attack against the state of the survivors of the Holocaust". And the Swedish president's crime? She had dared to say that "the practice of eliminations constitutes an obstacle to peace and could provoke new violence". She did not even refer to death squads.
In February Newsweek propagated a virtual fraud on its cover by showing – under the headline "Terror Goes Global – Exclusive: Bin Laden's International Network" – a frightening photograph of a man (head and shoulders), his face covered in an Arab scarf, holding a rifle in his right hand. The reader would imagine this to be a member of Osama bin Laden's network of "global terror". But I traced the Finnish photographer who took this picture. He snapped it at a funeral on the West Bank. The man was an armed member of the Palestinian Tanzim militia -- and had nothing to do with Bin Laden. The Tanzim are violent enough. But the cover generically smeared the entire Palestinian people by associating them with the man supposedly responsible for bombing US embassies in Africa.
As that brave American writer Charley Reese said in his regular US column, the Israelis "have created their own unconquerable enemy". They have made the Palestinians so crushed, so desperate, so humiliated that they have nothing to lose. We, too, have done this. Our gutlessness, our refusal to tell the truth, our fear of being slandered as "anti-Semites" – the most loathsome of libels against any journalist – means that we are aiding and abetting terrible deeds in the Middle East. Maybe we should look up those cuttings of the apartheid era and remember when men were not without honour.
I wonder what peoples thoughts on this article are.
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Robert Fisk 1 is a Muslim's Jezebel 2 is a ignoramus
First there is the problem of simple accuracy. It is difficult to turn a page of The Great War for Civilisation without encountering some basic error. Jesus was born in Bethlehem, not, as Fisk has it, in Jerusalem. The Caliph Ali, the Prophet Mohammed’s cousin and son-in-law, was murdered in the year 661, not in the 8th century. Emir Abdallah became king of Transjordan in 1946, not 1921. The Iraqi monarchy was overthrown in 1958, not 1962; Hajj Amin al-Husseini, the mufti of Jerusalem, was appointed by the British authorities, not elected; Ayatollah Khomeini transferred his exile from Turkey to the holy Shiite city of Najaf not during Saddam Hussein’s rule but fourteen years before Saddam seized power. Security Council resolution 242 was passed in November 1967, not 1968; Anwar Sadat of Egypt signed a peace treaty with Israel in 1979, not 1977, and was assassinated in October 1981, not 1979. Yitzhak Rabin was Minister of Defence, not prime minister, during the first Palestinian intifada, and al-Qaeda was established not in 1998 but a decade earlier. And so on and so forth.
Read link for full article
http://camera.org/index.asp?x_context=2&x_outlet=118&x_article=1518
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Fisk is a world famous reporter whose won numerous awards, what have you ever done?
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The main problem of this article is, that it twist the reality.
Muslims are doing the evil things, they are doing to the Jews to people around the whole earth.
You can read it everyday in the newspaper.
Plus the Swedish prime minister is really hypocrite.
They see how the Muslims are raping, robbing and murdering through their whole country.
The righteous policy would be to support Israel in her struggle against the quranimals.
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Fisk is a world famous reporter whose won numerous awards, what have you ever done?
Not make up stories now care to discuss the errors in his reporting
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Fisk is a world famous reporter whose won numerous awards, what have you ever done?
Who is writing such an article has serious mental problems. This is a fact. ::)
And come on everybody knows how it works with this leftist journalist awards. They gave awards in a circle under each other. ;D
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Funny, the journalists and media will not tell the truth about Apartheid, not even its' factually correct definition. The entire schema was brought into service not primarily to keep blacks and whites apart but to keep the continually warring black tribes apart from one another.
Similarly to "Free Trade", I'd honestly like to see a factually correct study presented on the pre and post Apartheid South Africa. I'd bet my last dollar not only the entirety of South Africa; whites and blacks, were far better off under Apartheid. Hell, look at any inner city in America for a "progress" or rather digression marker...
PS: There sure are some real anti-Jew pro-Arab bastards on that PW forum...whoa...
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Funny, the journalists and media will not tell the truth about Apartheid, not even its' factually correct definition. The entire schema was brought into service not primarily to keep blacks and whites apart but to keep the continually warring black tribes apart from one another.
Similarly to "Free Trade", I'd honestly like to see a factually correct study presented on the pre and post Apartheid South Africa. I'd bet my last dollar not only the entirety of South Africa; whites and blacks, were far better off under Apartheid. Hell, look at any inner city in America for a "progress" or rather digression marker...
PS: There sure are some real anti-Jew pro-Arab bastards on that PW forum...whoa...
Yes a few not many
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Fisk is a world famous reporter whose won numerous awards, what have you ever done?
Amother prize winning reporter who was fired for making up storys ;D ;D
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jayson_Blair
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Oh look another prize winner fired for making up storys ;D
http://academics.smcvt.edu/dmindich/Jimmy's%20World.htm
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Bit of a mistake I think Mord. Abdallah was Emir of Transjordan (1921-1946) under a British Mandate, then King of Transjordan (May 25, 1946 - 1949), and King of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan (1949 - 1951). Abdallah is also called King Abdullah "the Founder" since he, with British direction, was the founder and tin pot "King" of Jordan. Perhaps you were thinking of King Hussein bin Talal, King of Jordan (November 14, 1935 – February 7, 1999) was the ruler of Jordan from the abdication of his father, King Talal I bin Abdullah, in 1952, until his death?
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Oh look another prize winner fired for making up storys ;D
http://academics.smcvt.edu/dmindich/Jimmy's%20World.htm
Good point O0
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No, Mord. You are right. I stand corrected. He was "Emir" in 1921 and made "King" of Transjordan in 1946. My apologies brother... :)
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ahh, but do zinonists not present inaacurate hostories. A land without a people for a pople without a land, there was no nakba etc etc. you can't have it all your own way.
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ahh, but do zinonists not present inaacurate hostories. A land without a people for a pople without a land, there was no nakba etc etc. you can't have it all your own way.
There was no nakba arabs were displaced Jews were displaced,AND WHO TOLD THE Arabs to leave none other then their leaders.Check it out
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ahh, but do zinonists not present inaacurate hostories. A land without a people for a pople without a land, there was no nakba etc etc. you can't have it all your own way.
Everybody knows, that the land was under the arab rule under a curse. It was wasteland and the Arab Muslims were unable to develop it. They were mostly beduine-shepherds, who doesn't really settled there.
Then after more and more Jews came in the land, the land began to flourish and flourished more and more. It was a blessing and the more Jews came to the land and were born there the bigger was the blessing.
The Muslims were now attracted to the land in order to profit from the fruits of the hard work of others. Some by stealing and some by working in jobs for low qualified people and later they loved the Israeli welfare system.
Now the Arab Muslims were very jealous, because the Jews were able to do things, while they were not able because of their laziness, bad working ethic and of course because of their religion and culture, which totally retarded them.
Now they attacked the Jews and killed a lot of innocent Jewish people because of their anti-semitism.
God punished them for their crimes and they loose one war after the other.
They will never stop to do this crimes, so they must go all. I demand this of cause for all non-muslime countries, because it is everywhere similar. :)
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ahh, but do zinonists not present inaacurate hostories. A land without a people for a pople without a land, there was no nakba etc etc. you can't have it all your own way.
Please allow me to respond for to this. Firstly, one must know the proper definition of Zionism. Zionism is solely the belief that Jews need to have their own homeland. Many other destinations were proposed and rejected. Even the Japanese approached Jewish leaders to settle Jews in parts of uninhabited China. Now "Zion" stems from ancient religious roots dating back thousands of years as a particular place in pre-Judea: Caanan to which each year since the 6th century B.C.E. invasion of Israel by Babylonian King Nebuchadnezzar to which Jews have yearly desired to "return to Zion".
Religious Zionism pre-dates both the Socialist and Jewish Nationalist Movement by millenia. Even as purely a work of history the Bible details many examples which relate Abraham to Moses with Zion. Thus true "Zionism", or returning home, has been one of the very pillars of Judaism and specifically, re: above, a cultural specificity since the Jewish Babylonian exile to which Christians often sing truth: "Rivers of Babylon", based on the Biblical hymn Psalm 137, a hymn expressing the yearnings of the Jewish people in exile following the Babylonian conquest of Jerusalem in 586 B.C.E.. The rivers of Babylon are the Euphrates river, its tributaries, and the Chebar river. The song also has words from Psalm 19:14.
Now jumping to semi-modern times. If one researches Islam and how it spread one will find that wherever it spread it brough death, distruction, empoverishment (theivery of every vanquished nations resources and wealth), slavery, forced conversions to which, the group we know today as Gypsies, stem their Diaspora History directly to the Moslem Invasion of India under the Rashidun Caliphate in the 7th century and again in 1398 under Tamurlane.
So if simply looking at the backwardness and empoverishment of the entire Islamic World today one can see truth in both the words of Mark Twain, in his work "The Innocents Abroad" when he toured The Holyland in 1866 which further supports the evil "zionist" propaganda...albeit pre-Zionism by about 20 years. Further, if one looks at the base difference between Greece and its pre-Moslem/Turkish Lands: Thrace for example. Further one could look at the progress made by the Romans in these far off lands: Roads, aquaducts, archetecture and their collapse with the dawn/onslaught of Islam. The most modern example is the influance the British when they took over India. They had to crush the continual Jihad against the Hindu and stop many cultural traits of both Mohammadans and Hindus; Jihad and honor killings as well as wife burnings... Not to mention their introduction of commerce, education, arts, engineering, civil infrastructure, police/military organization for self rule... all pretty much collapsed after the Brits pulled out.
Yes the Labor Zionists, Jewish Socialists, have spread their share of molested "facts" and even furthered their own vanquisment by aiding their publically stated enemies: The "Palestinians" and Muslims in general.
The more you research on this subject the more "politically correct" and too "Islamically correct" distortions of the factually correct.
Should you have any direct questions. Please direct your pms to me and I'll supply you with answers which I do hope you independantly confirm via your self study. O0
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Apartheid was to keep warring black tribes apart???? is that why blacks had the franchise limited and were herderd into shanty towns, and why the whites were the only government???????
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Apartheid was to keep warring black tribes apart???? is that why blacks had the franchise limited and were herderd into shanty towns, and why the whites were the only government???????
Before you make these comments you might research the specificities directly related to the surrounding countries re: tribal warfare. Further, you might note that there were no paved roads, schools, civil infrastructure, written language, economic/financial insitutions etc. etc. prior to Ol-Whitey.
Further, if one were to discover the dark continant today, they'd find none of the above, but they would find: inter-tribal warfare, cannibalism, disease, starvation, rape, murder and every immoral empoverishment one can imagine.
I may not be here to make friends but I'll most certainly make people think.... ;)
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'Further, you might note that there were no paved roads, schools, civil infrastructure, written language, economic/financial insitutions etc. etc. prior to Ol-Whitey'
Are you suggesting that invading a country and building infrastructure allows you to claim the land as your own or legitimizes the oppression of the indigenous people?
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ahh, but do zinonists not present inaacurate hostories. A land without a people for a pople without a land, there was no nakba etc etc. you can't have it all your own way.
Crusader.... SPELL-AGRA. I think you should move to Israel, and state your case there :D. Give our Jewish Brethren a course in "How to make friends and influence people" :o I believe that you and I can agree... crusader... that you are clearly in the WRONG class of regents here. SUGGESTION: G.E.
Keep feeling sorry for the palestinians, they are really kind to serve you to allah. O0
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By that you mean, people who refuse to acknowledge past wrong doings whilst exploiting one that was committed against them?
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Are you suggesting that invading a country and building infrastructure allows you to claim the land as your own or legitimizes the oppression of the indigenous people?
Absolutely not, just simply outlining historical facts which are comparable to the founding of America, Canada, England, Spain, France etc. back to pre-Roman, Greek, Persian or Egyptian times. These, unfortunately, are the realities of this Earth's long history.
However in comparision, one might ask if they'd rather a Mohammadan invasion and expansion of Sharia over that of the British Imperialism or today's American/Western geo-political realities?
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Historical fact is that Israel was founded by westerners, on another peoples land. A 2 or 3 thousand claim to a land based upon one religions holy book is really no claim at all.
Well the islamic golden age outshone the west for several centuries, and indeed the jewish religion fared better under islamic rule than it did under christian rule.
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By that you mean, people who refuse to acknowledge past wrong doings whilst exploiting one that was committed against them?
I'm one whose always identified wrongs and rights of the past. No worries there mate. You had earlier stated that: "why blacks had the franchise limited and were herderd into shanty towns, and why the whites were the only government?" Firstly, I was unaware that blacks, in anywhere within Africa lived in anything other than mud/feces covered huts prior to ol-whitey? There was certainly no city or civilization comparable to say London, Paris or New York prior to "Dr. Livingston I presume?" Heck even Alexandria, the Jewel of the Mediterranian was not a doing of the African. Even Khartoum was largely a British rejuvination project.
Today, you have Arabian Moslems herding/murdering Black Christians into shantytowns, tent cities, massacres, rapes and genocide in the Sudan but never does one hear a word on the subject. Is it because they are not White? American? or British?
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Are you for real? Sundan is hardly of the agenda these days !!!!!
Whats is your point about imperialism? that all those white colonists should still be ruling those countries because they built the infrastructure?
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Historical fact is that Israel was founded by westerners, on another peoples land. A 2 or 3 thousand claim to a land based upon one religions holy book is really no claim at all.
Well the islamic golden age outshone the west for several centuries, and indeed the jewish religion fared better under islamic rule than it did under christian rule.
Are you for real? So you are telling all of us that Israel or Judea never existed? No Jews were living in Israel-Judea: "Palestine" prior to WW2 or post 1948's fouding of the State of Israel? Have you read anything I've posted above? Surely, the historical facts related to my very first post to you negates your above statement. Please research and you'll find all the substance you need. :)
The Islamic so-called "Golden Age" is purely a Arabist Western piece of revisionist history recreating the Andalusian/Spanish mythology. One simple search into the dhimmi of Spain will obliterate this piece of Edward Saidian Arabist revisionism in absolute detail. This self guilt must end brother, honestly...
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Are you for real? Sundan is hardly of the agenda these days !!!!! Have you asked yourself why not? Don't you think it just perhaps should be?
Whats is your point about imperialism? My point is that it is a historical fact of history that was taken up long before the British via: the Egyptians, Babylonians, Persians, Hittites, Greeks, Romans, Mongols and yes the Mohammadans and the Communist Russians...that all those white colonists should still be ruling those countries because they built the infrastructure? Where have you been? They haven't been ruling in quite some time. As a matter of fact you might research the specificities relating to Belguim leaving the Congo to "self determination" and black rule. How about today's Zimbabwe, Botzwana, Kenya, Angola etc. etc. where Whites left the blacks to power and now blacks massacred the whites, many being productive farmers, driving all of these once exporting nations back onto the International "Humanitarian Aid" Dole.
Perhaps you might research the fact that shortly after these nations were created and turned over to black rule you will find Marxist murderous revolutions occurred in nearly, if not every, one of them. Further organized, funded, armed by Communist Cuba, China and Russia, similarly to the Arabia World, post 1953.
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What is this creep doing here under a new screen name ?
Crusader is actually Republicanstones.
Still spouting his falsehoods about 'indiginous' people. This insipid moron refuses to acknowledge an undeniable truth. It is the Jews who are the indiginous people of the Land of Israel. All his poppycock about 'Palestinian' ancestry pre-dating that of the Jews is absurd nonsense.
In another thread Republicanstones stated "It is the white western colonial zionist who should go back to where they came from". Well peckerhead, thats EXACTLY what the Jews are doing !! Then you have the audacity to complain about it. What hypocrisy !
This assclown had his clock cleaned in another thread (http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php?topic=24062.msg258036#msg258036) and now he's back using a new moniker.
Was your Republicanstones ID banned from this site ? Using a proxy to come in with a new screen name ? Or is this just a sockpuppet to fool the moderators here ?
You're a tool.
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If the Palescumians were the ones living there prior to the Jews arrival thousands of years ago, then the Jews were commanded to kill every last one of them and take the land, weren't they? So maybe the Palescumians ought not to identify with that too strongly.
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As i said before, ofcourse there were small numbers of indigenous jews living in palestine. but Israel was set up by non-indigenous Jews from the west. the Islamic Golden Age did exist, perhaps its your anti-islamic bias which precludes you from admitting this piece of history.
Im well aware the colonial powers no longer rule those colonies, but are you sugessting they still should?
Are you also suggesting that the UA or Britain never funded any nefarious organistions or regimes?
o now im someone else am I, praytell who is RepublicanStones? He seems to have the right idea.
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As i said before, ofcourse there were small numbers of indigenous jews living in palestine. but Israel was set up by non-indigenous Jews from the west. the Islamic Golden Age did exist, perhaps its your anti-islamic bias which precludes you from admitting this piece of history.
Im well aware the colonial powers no longer rule those colonies, but are you sugessting they still should?
Are you also suggesting that the UA or Britain never funded any nefarious organistions or regimes?
o now im someone else am I, praytell who is RepublicanStones? He seems to have the right idea.
Let's say that you live in England and you move to another country to live with your wife. After a few generations, one of the great grandkids decides to move back to England. That grandkid would still have a legitimate claim to English heritage and could rightly call themselves a member of the indigenous population, in my opinion, because you don't lose your identity just because you are in exile.
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the grankid would have a 'claim' to be english, but not after 2000 odd years. judaism is not an ethnicity, it is a religion and those who founded israel had no genetic link to the region. the only link they had was a book.
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"o now im someone else am I, praytell who is RepublicanStones?"
That would be YOU, [censored]. Don't even bother trying to deny it. You're not only an idiot, you're a transparent idiot.
For the last time, the JEWS are the indiginous people of the Land of Israel.
When you were still posting as Republicanstones, you asked in another thread--What about white western colonists who conquer a land not theirs?
That's actually an excellent question.
I think those 'white western colonists' known as the Romans who conquered Judea, murdered it's JEWISH inhabitants and ethnically cleansed the Land of Israel of it's JEWISH inhabitants were guilty of the worst war crimes imaginable and JUSTICE demands that the Jews reclaim their homeland.
If you have a problem with that, that's just too bad.
The JEWISH landlord has returned, and this time he's staying forever. And there's not a damned thing you can do about it. Better learn to live with it.
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Afraid im not, but you keep peddling your lies if you must, and if it makes you feel better. BTW Israel was set up by white western colonists in 1948. they had no genetic link to the middle east whatsoever. Funny even now when you see israeli politicians they look like we do in the west, not like the indigenous people whose land they stole.
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the grankid would have a 'claim' to be english, but not after 2000 odd years. judaism is not an ethnicity, it is a religion and those who founded israel had no genetic link to the region. the only link they had was a book.
It is a people and a national identity. Judaism is a religion, but it's so much more than that. Jews are one people despite being scattered around the world, and they will have their homeland whether you like it or not.
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Afraid im not, but you keep peddling your lies if you must, and if it makes you feel better. BTW Israel was set up by white western colonists in 1948. they had no genetic link to the middle east whatsoever. Funny even now when you see israeli politicians they look like we do in the west, not like the indigenous people whose land they stole.
What are you?
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Afraid im not, but you keep peddling your lies if you must, and if it makes you feel better. BTW Israel was set up by white western colonists in 1948. they had no genetic link to the middle east whatsoever. Funny even now when you see israeli politicians they look like we do in the west, not like the indigenous people whose land they stole.
Actually when genetic tests have been done in Jewish populations, they do tend to have Middle Eastern ancestry no matter what other race they have in their ancestry. The majority of both Ashkenazi and Sephardim share a lot of genetics in common if that counts for anything. Of course first generation converts might not have this, but if they marry other Jews then their children will.
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Sure Ruby, i await your link to this research. judaism is a religion, not an ethnicity.
'Jews are one people despite being scattered around the world, and they will have their homeland whether you like it or not.'
So ethiopian Jews are the same race as white western jews are they? Tell me are greek christians the same race as english christians?
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As i said before, ofcourse there were small numbers of indigenous jews living in palestine. but Israel was set up by non-indigenous Jews from the west. We can agree on this part but my premise is that there were always Jews living in Israel, Judea prior to the British re-inventing "Palestine". By accepting this new revisionist, actually Hadrianic fabrication, one is negating there being an Israel further a Judea (Now, for purely political reasons, re-named "West Bank")the Islamic Golden Age did exist, perhaps its your anti-islamic bias which precludes you from admitting this piece of history. Anyone with a functioning brain should hold anti-Islamic bais unless one wishes to eventually live under Sharia via a death, conversion or pay the jizya policy under Islams expanding Caliphate? You might wish to read the Koran, Hadith and research Islamic/Arabian history. I'm guessing you are an infidel? If so you are directly given the three aforementioned choices, however should you be an hindu you'll be affored the first two choices unless the Imam of the day decides you'd make a great slave. Ask the Hindus or Blacks. Hell ask the Christians of Spain, parts of France, Greece, Bulgaria, Serbia, Hungary or Albania considering they too have first hand experience.... You might read up on El-Cid as well for your own personal knowledge...
Im well aware the colonial powers no longer rule those colonies, but are you sugessting they still should? Not at all. I'm suggesting that if they had, or would, Africa might one day become a fairly civilized and productive continant.... ;)
Are you also suggesting that the USA or Britain never funded any nefarious organistions or regimes? Not at all. I do not agree with the vast majority of "Globalism" of what the Elitist Establisment schemas. There we would emphatically agree..
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'Jews are one people despite being scattered around the world, and they will have their homeland whether you like it or not.'
So ethiopian Jews are the same race as white western jews are they? Tell me are greek christians the same race as english christians?
Jews are a people: a nation: with their own faith, language, culture and formerly land with borders: Israel/Judea hense Judea, Judaism, Jew.
If one studies the base of Judaism, which not only wrote the Bible but introduced the entire western concept of morality, will see that one can become a Jew: Judean by accepting the specificities of Judaism. Ah, nevermind. Go get the book "Nine Questions People Ask About Judaism" by Dennis Prager or "This is My G-d" - Herman Woek..
Happy reading :)
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I know there was an Israel/judea (although didn't Judea survive for longer than israel?). But that was in ancient history, to commit the grevious wrong which was comitted in 1948 based upon ancient hisotry is unfair i think. There were others in the land in ancient history too, not just Jews. there were also people living there prior to judaism itself. Jebus was captured by the Jews, so would you agree to it being handed over to people who claim descendancy from its inhabitants?
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'Jews are a people'
Are western jews the same race as black jews or even jewish converts?
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I know there was an Israel/judea (although didn't Judea survive for longer than israel?). To answer this question you might wish to do a google search on the Assyrian Empire and its invasion of Israel.But that was in ancient history, to commit the grevious wrong which was comitted in 1948 based upon ancient hisotry is unfair i think. So it is unfair to take back something that is rightfully yours? Hypathetically speaking, for point of arguement. Say the White Americans were the origional inabitants of America and were conquered by "Yellow" or "Brown" Americans who, comparable to the Mongols, came via land route from Asia. If today the Americans came and took back their lands, would it be wrong? Or would they hold both a historical and a moral right to their lands?There were others in the land in ancient history too, not just Jews. Yes, this is true but Jews were the overwhelming majority and it was a Jewish Nation for about 2000 or more years.there were also people living there prior to judaism itself. Jebus was captured by the Jews, so would you agree to it being handed over to people who claim descendancy from its inhabitants? Yes and no. Of course you are going back to pre-Abrahamic and Iron age times. While later the inhabitants of the land of Caanan largely adopted and warred with (if the documentation within the earliest books of the Bible hold truth) those of the Abrahamic tribes.
If one goes back into Greek times one does not hear any debate over the subject like Athenian control over other subjugated/vanquished city states to make the Greek Empire? No debate over the Spartan conquest of the Pelopanese or Agamemnon's conquest of Troy: Thrace... This debate only gets as much viewing and propaganda as it does because it happends to be A. The Jews and B. directly dealing with a Religion vs. anti-Religion agenda.
There is much evidence that dictates that by the time Joshua entered Caanan/Israel there were cultural similarities with the other peoples/tribes left over/adobted from the earlier times before the Jew/Israel left to Egyptian enslavement... Another point of fact for your research pleasure, too related to this entire contortion of history is the term Lebanon itself finds its very first historical documentation/name within a Jewish source: The Torah as an inclusion portion/border identified to be the Land of Israel. Therefore factually speaking the "Lebanese" are comparable in conception as the "Palestinians", "Jordanians" or "Iraqis"... Something for you to research and think about... ;)
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Sorry, but it's impossible for Jews to steal land they own. Your refusal to acknowledge that the Jews are the indigenous people of the Land of Israel is some sort of mental disorder or a manifestation of your Jew hatred. That's your problem, and you should deal with it. The fact that the Jews are the indigenous people is based not only on 'a two thousand year old book' as you say, but by every historic and archeological record accepted by sane people. That would exclude you, as you continue to babble about a non-existent nation called 'Palestine' and a mythical people called 'Palestinians', that NEVER existed.
That's quite a double standard you maintain. According to your assinine logic the JEWS don't have a right to reclaim the Land of Israel stolen from them, but the mythical Palestinians have the right to re-establish the nation of Palestine which never existed to begin with. It's hard to imagine a more ridiculous, preposterous argument.
Just in case you don't know this a very large percentage of the Jews in Israel are Sephardic. They came from the myriad of artificially created Arab nations.
The fact that your argument now comes down to Israeli politicians 'look Western', just proves how weak your argument is and what an ignoramus you truly are. Maybe Israel will elect someone that looks more 'indegenous' to make you happy and stop your absurd whining. Either that or Jews will start wearing diapers on their heads and putting their women in burlap sacks so they can 'look more indigenous' to you.
I know Shaul Mofaz 'looks' Western, but guess what ? He came from Iran.
All your whining isn't going to change the bottom line.
THE JEWISH LANDLORD HAS RETURNED. ALL ARAB SQUATTERS SHOULD BE EVICTED BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY.
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Most jews in the world today have no genetic link to the middle east, so how can they be coming home?
there was a small number of indigenous jews in Palestine prior to 1948. they have a right to be there. White settlers are just colonizing a land they have no link to except there religion was founded there. Are you suggesting as a chrisitian i have a right to invade palestine as well because christianity was founded there?
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Sorry, but it's impossible for Jews to steal land they own.
Great point. Nobody can steal something, what he rightfully ownes. O0
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Well the islamic golden age outshone the west for several centuries, and indeed the jewish religion fared better under islamic rule than it did under christian rule.
The "Islamic Golden Age" that you speak of only came about when the Muslims conquered the Assyrians and coöpted their civilization. Is it any wonder that 200 years later, when the Assyrian civilization died out because enough Assyrians had either converted to Islam or submitted themselves to Islamic rule, the "Islamic Golden Age" came to an end?
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Well the islamic golden age outshone the west for several centuries, and indeed the jewish religion fared better under islamic rule than it did under christian rule.
The "Islamic Golden Age" that you speak of only came about when the Muslims conquered the Assyrians and coöpted their civilization. Is it any wonder that 200 years later, when the Assyrian civilization died out because enough Assyrians had either converted to Islam or submitted themselves to Islamic rule, the "Islamic Golden Age" came to an end?
Muslims are parasites and soak the blood of the hard working people. In the past they did this with the dhimmi tax and by letting the subjected people work for them, today they soak our tax money by living on welfare and receiving foreign aid.
They are intellectual so weak, that even the arguments of the quranimal Dawa preachers against Judaism and Christianity in order to prolyterize came from the "critical theology" and the atheist leftist of the western world.
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Well the islamic golden age outshone the west for several centuries, and indeed the jewish religion fared better under islamic rule than it did under christian rule.
The "Islamic Golden Age" that you speak of only came about when the Muslims conquered the Assyrians and coöpted their civilization. Is it any wonder that 200 years later, when the Assyrian civilization died out because enough Assyrians had either converted to Islam or submitted themselves to Islamic rule, the "Islamic Golden Age" came to an end?
Muslims are parasites and soak the blood of the hard working people. In the past they did this with the dhimmi tax and by letting the subjected people work for them, today they soak our tax money by living on welfare and receiving foreign aid.
They are intellectual so weak, that even the arguments of the quranimal Dawa preachers against Judaism and Christianity in order to prolyterize came from the "critical theology" and the atheist leftist of the western world.
Yes they are (http://www.koicarp.net/koi_medication/images/leeches.jpg)
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What part of this statement don't you understand ?
THERE IS NO NATION CALLED PALESTINE.
THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A NATION CALLED PALESTINE.
I don't care about your notion of 'genetic links' being a requirement for Jews having a right to reclaim their nation. Jews are Jews. Jews own the Land of Israel. Period. You want part ownership ? Convert to Judaism.
Jews have Biblical ownership of the land.
Jews have historical ownership of the land.
Jews have legal ownership of the land.
Jews have military ownership of the land.
'Palestinians' have nothing but pimples.
Israel is not a Christian nation.
Israel is not an Islamic nation.
Israel is a Jewish nation.
Friendly Christians and even Muslims can dwell in the land of Israel. But they are there only as guests of the Jewish People. They must acknowledge Jewish sovereignty. They are known as resident strangers.
Too bad if this doesn't agree with the concept of Jeffersonian democracy.
THE JEWISH LANDLORD HAS RETURNED.
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Sure they are thats why they gave us algorithms, without which you wouldn't be able to post your bigoted hate filled rhetoric. Why is it only judaism which has a right to invoke a 3000yr old promise made by 'God'?
Do pagans have the right to rule france because paganism predates christianity?
Israel passed from the pages of time, and considering they rarely ruled themselves anyway, its ludricous to use the bible r torah as a reasoning. The people who aren't jewish in that region have just as much right to be their as the indigenous jews, and more right that the western jewish colonists.
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Sure they are thats why they gave us algorithms, without which you wouldn't be able to post your bigoted hate filled rhetoric. Why is it only judaism which has a right to invoke a 3000yr old promise made by 'G-d'?
Do pagans have the right to rule france because paganism predates christianity?
Israel passed from the pages of time, and considering they rarely ruled themselves anyway, its ludricous to use the bible r torah as a reasoning. The people who aren't jewish in that region have just as much right to be their as the indigenous jews, and more right that the western jewish colonists.
Crusader, I have had to sit here and watch you and your murdering crime talking insinuations. The FACT here is that YOU have NO home, and this is bothering YOU. You also have a massive JEALOUSY because whether YOU like it or NOT, OUR G-d is alive and well, and frankly, HE IS TIRED OF YOUR POSTS HERE. You think that G-d does NOT exist? HUH?
Here is the PROOF he does:
We JEWS should have been GONE WITH THE WITH A LONG TIME AGO. YOUR people have "TRIED" to MURDER and slaughter us for CENTURIES.. Does it not CHAP your little hide, that we JUST WONT GO AWAY?
We have an UNBREAKABLE covenant with G-d, even if we did NOT go there, it would NOT stop the covenant.
Tell ya what, after you are done with your palestinian SYMPATHY, and WHEN and IF you just CANNOT fight G-d anymore, (b/c clearly you will not EVER win this argument), My suggestion to you, is to go and take this up with G-d. EXPLAIN TO HIM, why you have the a-- at a PROMISE he made.
Bottom Line here, is that you are NOT fighting US, you ARE fighting G-d. This is NOT good, this is BAD for YOU. If you keep this up, you WILL find yourself, in the hands of the Living G-d.
And, if you DONT believe that G-d takes NO pleasure in UN righteous behavior, Go and look at the very long and drawn out coma that Mr. Ariel Sharon is in, when HE GAVE AWAY GAZA TO MURDERERS.
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I really don'nt like this whole genetic thing but here have fun http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cohen_modal_haplotype
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Sure they are thats why they gave us algorithms, without which you wouldn't be able to post your bigoted hate filled rhetoric. Why is it only judaism which has a right to invoke a 3000yr old promise made by 'G-d'?
Do pagans have the right to rule france because paganism predates christianity?
Israel passed from the pages of time, and considering they rarely ruled themselves anyway, its ludricous to use the bible r torah as a reasoning. The people who aren't jewish in that region have just as much right to be their as the indigenous jews, and more right that the western jewish colonists.
Crusader, I have had to sit here and watch you and your murdering crime talking insinuations. The FACT here is that YOU have NO home, and this is bothering YOU. You also have a massive JEALOUSY because whether YOU like it or NOT, OUR G-d is alive and well, and frankly, HE IS TIRED OF YOUR POSTS HERE. You think that G-d does NOT exist? HUH?
Here is the PROOF he does:
We JEWS should have been GONE WITH THE WITH A LONG TIME AGO. YOUR people have "TRIED" to MURDER and slaughter us for CENTURIES.. Does it not CHAP your little hide, that we JUST WONT GO AWAY?
We have an UNBREAKABLE covenant with G-d, even if we did NOT go there, it would NOT stop the covenant.
Tell ya what, after you are done with your palestinian SYMPATHY, and WHEN and IF you just CANNOT fight G-d anymore, (b/c clearly you will not EVER win this argument), My suggestion to you, is to go and take this up with G-d. EXPLAIN TO HIM, why you have the a-- at a PROMISE he made.
Bottom Line here, is that you are NOT fighting US, you ARE fighting G-d. This is NOT good, this is BAD for YOU. If you keep this up, you WILL find yourself, in the hands of the Living G-d.
And, if you DONT believe that G-d takes NO pleasure in UN righteous behavior, Go and look at the very long and drawn out coma that Mr. Ariel Sharon is in, when HE GAVE AWAY GAZA TO MURDERERS.
(http://www.salagir.com/gfx/troll-web.jpg)
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Great statement Paulette and true O0
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You don't have to accept the 3000 year old promise.
You can continue to deny the archeological evidence.
You can continue to deny the historical record.
You can deny the legal mandate.
You can deny any and all evidence of JEWISH ownership of the Land of Israel.
Deny the Bible, deny the Torah, deny the archeology, deny the history.
Deny, deny, deny.
But the Jews are there.
Israel is there.
Obviously, you don't want them there.
You don't think they have a right to be there.
So the question is, what are you going to do to get rid of Israel and the Jews that you seem to think need your approval to be there ?
What do you have in mind ?
Seems to me that it's going to take a war to get Israel, and the Jews you don't approve of being there, to leave.
I'm afraid Israel and the Jews will have to prove to you who has military ownership of the land.
Seems to me that that's where this is heading.
Or do you have another idea ?
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First off i never said i didn't approve of Jews being there, merely the state of Israel. jews had lived there for 2000yrs without an Israel, why the need for it. Secondly western colonist jews are given more rights than the indigenous non-jews, which is wrong.
this unbreakable covenant with GOD is frankly bollox. im not sure GOD intended the kingdom of Israel to come about through mass murder and ethnic cleansing of another people do you?
'Deny, deny, deny.'
im not denying anything, i recognise there have always been jews since the start of the faith. But so to there has always been non-jews in the region, why are they not afforded the same rights?
It is youse who deny the rights of a people to their own land, and deny the suffering inflicted upon them by western jewish colonists.
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Here's a newsflash for you.
Israel doesn't need your approval to be there.
Israel is there.
The 'western colonists' are there.
They're not leaving because you don't approve of them being there.
Whether you think there is a need for Israel or not is irrelevant.
Israel is there.
So again, I ask you, what are you suggesting ?
I'm not happy that the artificially created nations of Jordan, Iraq, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, UAE, etc are there and don't allow Jews to live within their borders.
I'm not happy that Israel is the world's ONLY Jewish nation. I'm not happy that Israel is smaller than New Jersey and the Arab nations have a combined land mass nearly twice that of the entire USA. I'm not happy that there are 65 Muslim nations.
But I accept it.
I accept it until some assclown comes to this forum and suggests the dissolution of tiny Israel and whines about Israel not giving rights to the hostile Arabs that wish to destroy her.
When that happens I tell that assclown to kiss my Jewish buttocks and [censored] and die.
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Yes Muck,
this is right O0
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by allowing arabs that want to destroy israel, the right to live in israel, or the right for a state alongside it, you are more than denying israel's right to exist. You are preparing the ground for another attempted holocaust.
What is this "I don't deny israel the right to exist", if you prepare the ground for it to be annihalated.
The arabs within israel are within already, and the arabs adjacent could storm in. Moreso if they have a "right of return"
Even if they fail, it is their intention to destroy israel, and you "want" to help them. Or, you say you don't but you believe in actions that help them in this goal.
And if they succeeded, you may condemn them with your words, with a BUT. But, you would say, israel shouldn't have been there in the first place, they shouldn't have taken their land e.t.c
You can't have it both ways.. It's Israel or P@lestine, and that's a reality because of the ways of the arabs. Who have shown that when israel compromises, israel loses. Starting with the 1948 offer, which had israel quite small. And excluding the "west bank". Israel accepted it, the arabs rejected it, and worse, tried for another holocaust. Thank G-d they failed. They've tried again since. Most are for suicide bombers. Those people are no more willing to compromise than the suicide bombers.
Infact.. it's not so much a choice one has to make between israel and p@lestine.
It's a moral choice, between Israel, who if she put her weapons down, would be destroyed.
And Palestine, who if she put her weapons down, there would be peace.
So it's not just a religious basis(my text says x).. it's a moral basis too.
So G-dless animals should be able to understand it too ;-)
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First off i never said i didn't approve of Jews being there, merely the state of Israel. jews had lived there for 2000yrs without an Israel, why the need for it. Secondly western colonist jews are given more rights than the indigenous non-jews, which is wrong.
this unbreakable covenant with G-d is frankly bollox. im not sure G-d intended the kingdom of Israel to come about through mass murder and ethnic cleansing of another people do you?
'Deny, deny, deny.'
im not denying anything, i recognise there have always been jews since the start of the faith. But so to there has always been non-jews in the region, why are they not afforded the same rights?
It is youse who deny the rights of a people to their own land, and deny the suffering inflicted upon them by western jewish colonists.
Now we must say to YOU, you are: VERBOTEN
Chaps you little hide, nazi, does it not, that we HAVE a home...you still want to MURDER us, only THIS time, we have bigger, and badder WEAPONS than you. LOL! AS IF A nazi GIVES A CRAP ABOUT ETHNIC CLEANSING.
Let me see... Jews...ethnic cleansing...........NOPE- DONT RING A BELL.
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Easy Paulette my Jewish sister... Please allow him to ask his questions and make his positions.... ;)
Sorry Crusader for the delay in my response as I just got in from my workout. Previously you mentioned highly distorted subject: "The Golden Age of Islam" which is, as I stated, a piece of Arabist Revisionism in actuality progressed by the Edward Saids of our time. In actuality its base lies within Islam's specificity called Taqiyya and Kitman used against the infidel to further Jihad and the end goals of Islam.
I see you've researched some base history. I presume you know who Maimonides: Rambam was? If not you can google him. Do you believe that he's the sort of individual that is apt to tell the truth and not lie even though he was one of the great Jewish Sages who lived during "The Golden Age of Islam"?
If your answer is yes, one must then ask why someone like Maimonides disquised himself as an Arab to flee "Golden Age" Adalusian Spain to Egypt and then to Tiberias: Israel? Further that Rambam/Maimonides is quoted: "The Arabs (Muslims) have persecuted us severely, and passed baneful and discriminatory legislation against us... Never did a nation molest, degrade, debase and hate us as much as they." So really, how "Golden" could this "Golden Age of Islam" truly have been? Further research you will find that one is splitting hairs being Jewish persecution under the "Christian" Europe or enslavement and/or persecution as Kufar/ "Dhimmi" under the Mohammadan. Should you wish to research this further might I suggest some books you can jot down? "The Dhimmi" by Ba't Yeor, "The Legacy of Jihad" by Andrew Bostom or anything by Robert Spencer...
Lastly, now that China is occupying Buddhist Tebet would you agree or disagree that the Mr. Lama and his Buddhists, should they in the future attain the opportunity or the power, have the moral justifications to take back their historical homelands stolen by the Chinese Communists even if the Russians occupy this area in the meanwhile?
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Didn't Maimonides actually end up serving the court of Saladin? Why didn't you mention that in your post?
The Almohades who he fled in southern spain were notoriously stern in their system of govt. it seems yet again you wish to tar all muslims with the one brush.
As regards the Tibet issue, i believe china has no business there, but if 2000yrs pass and tibet is gone from the history books for millenia, i think it wrong for followers of the Dali's faith, who have no other link to the region to inflict suffering on the indigenous people there.
As a christian, im willing to admit that history shows jews fared less well under christianity than Islam, it is a fact. I just wonder what the agenda is that seeks to revise this and blacken the name of muslims everywhere as anti-semites. The legacy of Jewish suffering is in these links for all to see.
http://christianactionforisrael.org/antiholo/guilt.html
http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/1000years.htm
http://www.religioustolerance.org/jud_pers.htm
P.S the golden age of Islam did occur, for centuries they were well ahead of the west. Again i ask what the agenda is in denying this fact. Anti-islamic perhaps...one does have to wonder.
http://www.irfi.org/articles/articles_401_450/golden_age_of_islam.htm
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Didn't Maimonides actually end up serving the court of Saladin? Why didn't you mention that in your post?
The Almohades who he fled in southern spain were notoriously stern in their system of govt. it seems yet again you wish to tar all muslims with the one brush.
As regards the Tibet issue, i believe china has no business there, but if 2000yrs pass and tibet is gone from the history books for millenia, i think it wrong for followers of the Dali's faith, who have no other link to the region to inflict suffering on the indigenous people there.
As a christian, im willing to admit that history shows jews fared less well under christianity than Islam, it is a fact. I just wonder what the agenda is that seeks to revise this and blacken the name of muslims everywhere as anti-semites. The legacy of Jewish suffering is in these links for all to see.
http://christianactionforisrael.org/antiholo/guilt.html
http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/1000years.htm
http://www.religioustolerance.org/jud_pers.htm
P.S the golden age of Islam did occur, for centuries they were well ahead of the west. Again i ask what the agenda is in denying this fact. Anti-islamic perhaps...one does have to wonder.
http://www.irfi.org/articles/articles_401_450/golden_age_of_islam.htm
(Ok..Marzutra, I shall hold my peace....in just a minute lol- then disappear from your debate.)
You, a CHRISTIAN? Crusader?
Why are you in DIRECT DEFIANCE of your New Testament? Have YOU considered that the book YOU BELIEVE says:
"If he did not spare the branch, why should G-d in Heaven Spare YOU?" OBVIOUSLY you are NOT in belief of your OWN book, which solidifies your 'so-called' faith.
IT IS EVIDENT- you have no healthy Fear of G-d, AT ALL.
You are NOT a 'practicing christian', else you would be here, like ALL of the OTHER REAL Christians exuding of LOVE...which you are not.
I shall REMOVE myself from this debate ENTIRELY.
And I will tell you, before I go- R E P E N T. And as it says in YOUR book: "And now abideth faith, hope and love, and the greatest of these IS LOVE.
PUHHHLEASEEEE, JEWS do THIS WAY better than some christians.
Now heres another:
"You are of YOUR father, Satan"
Well- its ALL in YOUR book.
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Didn't Maimonides actually end up serving the court of Saladin? Why didn't you mention that in your post?
The Almohades who he fled in southern spain were notoriously stern in their system of govt. it seems yet again you wish to tar all muslims with the one brush. Islam is Islam, whether some practice it the way it is supposed to be, in the image of its Prophet and its founder is a directly related answer. You must read the Hadith and the Koran, research its history and its' specificties as related to Islamic jurisprudance.... You will quickly understand what I'm speaking... ;)
As regards the Tibet issue, i believe china has no business there, but if 2000yrs pass and tibet is gone from the history books for millenia, Israel has never left the history books my friend. It has been continually praised by Christians and Jews alike. It has been a major subject of art during the Renaissance further continued to be the crux of culture that founded America: Puritans..i think it wrong for followers of the Dali's faith, who have no other link to the region to inflict suffering on the indigenous people there. But these people wouldn't be "indigenous" especially if there continually had a portion of its former owner/Buddhists, in continuous habitation of their homelands, even if under a new conquerer. Therefore the land is a. still in history and b. the land still has a population of its former owners.
As a christian, im willing to admit that history shows jews fared less well under christianity than Islam, it is a fact. Actually, no it is not a fact. It is again progressive revisionisms. A very good example is the continual contortion of the subject of the crusades where Chistians are always the blood thirsty bastards that massacre innocent Mohammadans and Jews. Yes, that did happen in some instances but well over propaganted and molested by the anti-Religious/G-d Socialistic/Communistic agenda and ideology itself. A good example of this is the subject of the Fabian Socialist Society who owned and operated "The Christian Book Club" where they would publish and sell to benighted Christians Bibles, Christian literature that was molested with Socialist contortions to undermine/distort Christianity to make the reading Christians more open to their agenda to promulgate the Socialist ideal. Research this subject and you'll be shocked. One fabulous example that I've personally come accross was a book written about the Fabians and how Socialism was brought to America: "Fabian Freeway" - Rose Martin.
Back to the Crusades. There were two things happening at this time, Chrystendom was breaking apart while Islam: the Caliphate was expanding via Jihad (war). So much so that Islam vanquished and enslaved masses of non-Muslim Infidels from Spain to Asia. The Crusades were brought on to re-claim the Holyland from the Mohammadan Jihadists. If you research Islamic expansion into Greece and the Pellaponese, North Africa, Spain, Armenia, Hindu Afghanistan/Kush, India, Persia etc. you'll find that Islam didn't grow via door to door missionaries preaching the Gospel but the sword comparable to what is currently going on in the Sudan and other places today.
To end this specific portion of my response I strongly suggest, as it is directly applicable to this molestation of anti-Christian agenda and Arabist distortions is two subjects. The first is that of Khazaria the Khazars, the most widely documented read is by a man named Dunlop. The Khazars were an independant power which lay between the Islamic Caliphate's expansion and the shaking Byzantine Empire. While Islam was making a pincer movement by taking Spain and working towards Western Europe to be defeated by Charles Martel, there was a continual power block being the Khazars in the East. Aside from the Islamic documentation themselves you might wish to delve into the diary of Marco Polo. This is a worthy read as one will see, even then, the brutality of Islamic doctrine. "The Politically Incorrect Guide to the Crusades" is a worthy read as well...I just wonder what the agenda is that seeks to revise this and blacken the name of muslims everywhere as anti-semites. When you study Islamc jurisprudance you will fully be introduced to something truly "blackening" itself. The expansionist goal of perpetual war between Dar al-Islam and Dar al-Harb via any means necessary "Jihad" to have global Islam.... I'm not sure if you'd like having 3 options given to you: be killed, convert or slavery via the Jizya? I sure don't want any of these options... Secondly, Arabs are not a semitic people. They are Hamitic but their language, Arabic, is a semitic language. http://www.somebodyhelpme.info/semites/semites.htmlThe legacy of Jewish suffering is in these links for all to see.
http://christianactionforisrael.org/antiholo/guilt.html
http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/1000years.htm
http://www.religioustolerance.org/jud_pers.htm
I will not debate this as it is fact however, due to the fact that Islam and the Mohammadan history, agenda and religious specificities has not a well, overt, documentation to only recently been introduced as a subject here in the West with about 30 years of Arabist propaganda..one must question the sourses themselves. Further, the anti-Christian Socialist/Communist movement also released an immense amount of distorted material to inject anti-semitism into benighted Christians and further blame the Christians for the deeds and advocations of their corrupted power hungry Kings and Popes. "A History of Christianity" or "A History of the Jews" by Paul Johnson are fabulous as is Michael Grant's "Jews in the Roman World".
P.S the golden age of Islam did occur, for centuries they were well ahead of the west. Again i ask what the agenda is in denying this fact. Anti-islamic perhaps...one does have to wonder. Brother it is not....not...fact. It is the bi-product of "political correctness". It is a fabricated myth. Simply type in "golden age of Islam myth" and you'll find tons of documentation. You must research yourself and take nothing as fact... FYI here is something that you might enjoy. Ba't Yeor is an immense worth to documentation on this subject. Research her and her works. Like Andrew Bostom, Yeor is in a class of her own. http://jihadwatch.org/archives/003675.php
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Didn't Maimonides actually end up serving the court of Saladin? Why didn't you mention that in your post?
The Almohades who he fled in southern spain were notoriously stern in their system of govt. it seems yet again you wish to tar all muslims with the one brush. Islam is Islam, whether some practice it the way it is supposed to be, in the image of its Prophet and its founder is a directly related answer. You must read the Hadith and the Koran, research its history and its' specificties as related to Islamic jurisprudance.... You will quickly understand what I'm speaking... ;)
As regards the Tibet issue, i believe china has no business there, but if 2000yrs pass and tibet is gone from the history books for millenia, Israel has never left the history books my friend. It has been continually praised by Christians and Jews alike. It has been a major subject of art during the Renaissance further continued to be the crux of culture that founded America: Puritans..i think it wrong for followers of the Dali's faith, who have no other link to the region to inflict suffering on the indigenous people there. But these people wouldn't be "indigenous" especially if there continually had a portion of its former owner/Buddhists, in continuous habitation of their homelands, even if under a new conquerer. Therefore the land is a. still in history and b. the land still has a population of its former owners.
As a christian, im willing to admit that history shows jews fared less well under christianity than Islam, it is a fact. Actually, no it is not a fact. It is again progressive revisionisms. A very good example is the continual contortion of the subject of the crusades where Chistians are always the blood thirsty bastards that massacre innocent Mohammadans and Jews. Yes, that did happen in some instances but well over propaganted and molested by the anti-Religious/G-d Socialistic/Communistic agenda and ideology itself. A good example of this is the subject of the Fabian Socialist Society who owned and operated "The Christian Book Club" where they would publish and sell to benighted Christians Bibles, Christian literature that was molested with Socialist contortions to undermine/distort Christianity to make the reading Christians more open to their agenda to promulgate the Socialist ideal. Research this subject and you'll be shocked. One fabulous example that I've personally come accross was a book written about the Fabians and how Socialism was brought to America: "Fabian Freeway" - Rose Martin.
Back to the Crusades. There were two things happening at this time, Chrystendom was breaking apart while Islam: the Caliphate was expanding via Jihad (war). So much so that Islam vanquished and enslaved masses of non-Muslim Infidels from Spain to Asia. The Crusades were brought on to re-claim the Holyland from the Mohammadan Jihadists. If you research Islamic expansion into Greece and the Pellaponese, North Africa, Spain, Armenia, Hindu Afghanistan/Kush, India, Persia etc. you'll find that Islam didn't grow via door to door missionaries preaching the Gospel but the sword comparable to what is currently going on in the Sudan and other places today.
To end this specific portion of my response I strongly suggest, as it is directly applicable to this molestation of anti-Christian agenda and Arabist distortions is two subjects. The first is that of Khazaria the Khazars, the most widely documented read is by a man named Dunlop. The Khazars were an independant power which lay between the Islamic Caliphate's expansion and the shaking Byzantine Empire. While Islam was making a pincer movement by taking Spain and working towards Western Europe to be defeated by Charles Martel, there was a continual power block being the Khazars in the East. Aside from the Islamic documentation themselves you might wish to delve into the diary of Marco Polo. This is a worthy read as one will see, even then, the brutality of Islamic doctrine. "The Politically Incorrect Guide to the Crusades" is a worthy read as well...I just wonder what the agenda is that seeks to revise this and blacken the name of muslims everywhere as anti-semites. When you study Islamc jurisprudance you will fully be introduced to something truly "blackening" itself. The expansionist goal of perpetual war between Dar al-Islam and Dar al-Harb via any means necessary "Jihad" to have global Islam.... I'm not sure if you'd like having 3 options given to you: be killed, convert or slavery via the Jizya? I sure don't want any of these options... Secondly, Arabs are not a semitic people. They are Hamitic but their language, Arabic, is a semitic language. http://www.somebodyhelpme.info/semites/semites.htmlThe legacy of Jewish suffering is in these links for all to see.
http://christianactionforisrael.org/antiholo/guilt.html
http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/1000years.htm
http://www.religioustolerance.org/jud_pers.htm
I will not debate this as it is fact however, due to the fact that Islam and the Mohammadan history, agenda and religious specificities has not a well, overt, documentation to only recently been introduced as a subject here in the West with about 30 years of Arabist propaganda..one must question the sourses themselves. Further, the anti-Christian Socialist/Communist movement also released an immense amount of distorted material to inject anti-semitism into benighted Christians and further blame the Christians for the deeds and advocations of their corrupted power hungry Kings and Popes. "A History of Christianity" or "A History of the Jews" by Paul Johnson are fabulous as is Michael Grant's "Jews in the Roman World".
P.S the golden age of Islam did occur, for centuries they were well ahead of the west. Again i ask what the agenda is in denying this fact. Anti-islamic perhaps...one does have to wonder. Brother it is not....not...fact. It is the bi-product of "political correctness". It is a fabricated myth. Simply type in "golden age of Islam myth" and you'll find tons of documentation. You must research yourself and take nothing as fact... FYI here is something that you might enjoy. Ba't Yeor is an immense worth to documentation on this subject. Research her and her works. Like Andrew Bostom, Yeor is in a class of her own. http://jihadwatch.org/archives/003675.php
MarZutra....YOU are FLAT OUT THE MOST brilliant & MAGNIFICENT man I have EVER met in my ENTIRE life. :)
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Thank you Paulette for your words. My sole intention here is not to prove my being "right" and someone else "wrong" but to simply offer another view. A view that is often overlooked, bastardized or intentionally censored due to various social, religious or political agendas at work today. A very good example is "Political Correctness" founded by Joseph Stalin in 1929.
I hope to encourage thought, independant research and the opportunity for intellectually stimulating conversation for all readers and not only those directly taking part. Lord knows, I'm probably wrong more than most others.
"Teach thy tongue to say "I don't know" and thou shalt progress..." - Moses Maimonides: Rabbi, Physician and Philosopher. 1135 - 1204.
Or the oft chance one meets a Communist, Nazis, Mohammadan or Erev Rav anti-Jew Savage: "There is no such thing as a stupid question. Just stupid people..." - Herbert Garrison O0
Crusader, here is a video/interview/lecture with Dr. Andrew Bostom, Author of "The Legacy of Jihad" and "The Legacy of Islamic Antisemitism" within which he outlines the Islamic/Sharia jurisprudance not only to make war on Dar al-Harb, by any means necessary, but also the specific issue being the crux of his fabulously well documented book on Islamic Antisemtism. Further he speaks directly on the subject you've introduced here "The Golden Age of Islam". VIDEO: http://somebodyhelpme.info/andrew_bostom/legacy.html Enjoy ;)
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Marzutra, you do a fabulous job of disproving Crusader's assertion that Islam and Muslims are not anti-Jewish and that Jewish life under Muslim rule was benign, or even pleasant.
But please, do not lose sight of who and what you're dealing with when amicably debating with people like 'Crusader'.
"There is no such thing as a stupid question. Just stupid people..." - Herbert Garrison
Crusader is clearly not stupid. However, he is ignorant, or at the very least uses selective ignorance and intentionally distorts reality to jusitfy his propaganda and agenda.
And what exactly is Crusader's agenda ?
His postings in this thread reveal that he desires the dissolution of the state of Israel. He clearly believes that Jews have no right of self-determination or statehood. He is convinced that 'white western colonists' (ie. European Jews) have no right to live in the Land of Israel. He is convinced that it is the Jews who are the aggressors that steal the land of the mythical Palestinians and commit acts of genocide against what he likes to call the 'indigenous people'.
Crusader harbors dreams of a world without Israel. He likes the idea of Jews living under Muslim rule. He would like to convince us that we shouldn't fear living under the thumb of Muslims. He would sit by idly while the Muslims persecute and slaughter the 'white western colonists' and think to himself 'well, they deserved it anyway".
No, Crusader isn't stupid, but he is evil. And he is an enemy of the Jewish people.
So, while it's fine to "encourage thought, independant research and the opportunity for intellectually stimulating conversation for all readers and not only those directly taking part", please do not forget that Crusader and his ilk are contemptible vermin and deserve absolutely no respect.
Thanks, and keep up the good fight.
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Marzunta it seems your anti-islamic tendencies do you harm in repect of knowing your history. First off you try and tar all muslims with the one brush, if that is so then can all Jews be tarred with the same brush in respect of the facist zionists and their ethnic cleansing against the indigenous people in palestine in 1948? i wouldn't tar all Jews with that stain, but anything any group of muslims do, you seem to think its ok to blame them all. furthermore the fact you left out that Maimonides eventually working for Saladin speaks volumnes about your agenda.
'Secondly, Arabs are not a semitic people'
unfortunately they are, particularly the palestinians who can trace their lineage back to the cannanites just like the indigenous jews.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamitic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic#Ancient_Semitic_peoples
And if you believe they are hamitic, doesn't that mean they are directly descended from Noah?
Marzunta, the Golden Age of islam did exist, and we have many things to thank them for. it seems in your hatred of all things islamic you cannot bring yourself to admit this basic fact of history.
'The Crusades were brought on to re-claim the Holyland from the Mohammadan Jihadists.'
The crusades started because the byzantines, worried about there loss at Manzikert, asked the west for help. Pope Urban duly obliged and the land hungry frankish knights headed east. Also care to tell us about what they did when they reached jerusalem/Jebus in 1099? Or is that too uncomfortable?
Also you recommend 'The Politically Incorrect Guide to the Crusades'. The title says it all. Spencer does admit Crusader atrocities, but he believes the land hungry nobles were there to reclaim lost territory, whilst ignoring the reality of the 461 yr gap between 638 and 1099, Spencer also isn't too keen in admitting that the crusades were a failure,never mind the squabbling between said nobles about how to divide up the spoils among them.
his other works titles illustrate his rather blatant bias...
'The Truth About Muhammad: Founder of the World's Most Intolerant Religion'
'Religion of Peace?: Why Christianity Is and Islam Isn't'
'Stealth Jihad: How Radical Islam is Subverting America without Guns or Bombs'
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Brother I largely agree with what you say. Like the Erev Rav "Jewish" anti-Jew can make tshuva....especially once they realize they've been duped into being a follower or what the elite of the Left would identify as "the useful idiot."
That said, I will debate with anyone who keeps a civil conversation even if being from a contra or of "politically correct" anti-Jew/Communist....
Should the conversation/debate digress into the individual voices insults or attacks. This is when the third strike....you're out policy. Some come here simply to attack. Some come for deceitful purposes which are most often exposed, but if a truly benighted individual being Christian or Jew comes here solely due to his/her embracement of the distortions of a "Politically Correct" agenda, they should be given every opportunity to express their views and opinion with our freedom to supply another position for them to reasearch for themselves independantly..... providing they are "open minded" as they all continually state they are.....
I see your point and thank you for your advice and imput... O0
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Marzunta it seems your anti-islamic tendencies do you harm in repect of knowing your history. Not at all. I firmly believe that you MUST read the Koran, Hadith and research the facts for yourself before you state such a position.First off you try and tar all muslims with the one brush, No, I tarnish Islam. It is the individual's choice to embrace Islam. If you knew what Islam is you'd not hold these opinions my friend... I get the undressed feeling that you are not reading nor reseaching any of my facts/positions. You most certainly wouldn't have stated any of this, had you watched the lecture with Andrew Bostom or read the works of Ba't Yeor.if that is so then can all Jews be tarred with the same brush in respect of the facist zionists Not at all. Islam is a religion, like Judaism and are decidedly opposite in actuality and religious jurisprudance. I agree with you that the "Zionists" that head Israel are Fascists, more correctly, I'd say they are Bolsheviks but their major proplem is that they do not support Jews but the enemies of the Jew...and their ethnic cleansing What ethnic cleansing? Do you even know what ethnic cleansing is? NOTHING in Israel's history constitutes mislables like "ethnic cleansing" "holocaust" or "genocide" nothing. There is nothing comparable to Nazis Germany or Turkish treatment of the Abanians within Israel. Nothing. This is pure disinformation...period.against the indigenous people in palestine in 1948? The Jews were the indigenous peoples of "Palestine" before 1948. I see again you are not reading my posts particularly the one being about the bulk of Arabs came after 1888 to get employment from the Jews who were rebuilding their homelands that they purchased from absentee Turkish and Arab (singular) landlords. "History of Israel" - Sacher. Please read before you respond...i wouldn't tar all Jews with that stain, but anything any group of muslims do, you seem to think its ok to blame them all. You are molesting the position here my friend. Islam is one subject with its own aforementioned agenda and the Arabs of Israel are decidedly another. furthermore the fact you left out that Maimonides eventually working for Saladin speaks volumnes about your agenda. I didn't leave it out, I simply pointed out that he fled from the EXACT place that was known for and supposedly produced "The Golden Age of Islam": Andalusia. The fact that Maimonides worked for Saladin's appointed representative: al-Fadil, not Saladin himself is another issue. If you'd read, under "dhimmi" status the Kufar (non muslims living in muslim lands) are, in fact slaves. They are forced to pay a poll/head tax called the Jizya. In many cases their sons are confiscated in failure to pay the tax and taken away to be slaves and raised Muslim while the female children are taken into the Sultan's Harem. If you read up on the Ottoman, Caliph, from Islamic, Christian, Greek, Armenian, Hindu, Zoastar etc. sources you will see that this was the common occurance within the Islamic World...Hell slavery is still practiced. Further under "dhimmi" "peoples of the book" the kufar slaves are exploited. Maimonides was a brillant Rabbi, Philosopher and Physician for his day, so it makes absolute sense that he serve the ruler as no other Muslim was obviously up to the level of Maimonides. Further, if the local Imam decided to be rid of the dhimmi/kufar in his local, similar to the pogroms in Europe/Russia, the muslim horde would come and burn down the synagoge, rape the women and murder the men. A common occurance then and today within the Muslim world, which I've documented previously...
'Secondly, Arabs are not a semitic people'
unfortunately they are, particularly the palestinians who can trace their lineage back to the cannanites just like the indigenous jews.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamitic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic#Ancient_Semitic_peoples
No, fortunately they are NOT semitic as "Semitic" applies to language not race. The entire "racial" issue as it relates to this bastardized subject solely stems from the minds of people like Alfred Rosenberg, Karl Brandt and Houston Stewart Chamberlain. Please research this subject further for yourself. I believe that link also provided other sources directly related to this screwed up subject of race vs linguistics.
Arabic, as I've said, like Hebrew are Semitic languages. PS: Wikipedia is a source that must be continually checked. As a matter of fact there was a recent article in the US where University Students used Wikipedia to quote their sources which were incorrect which resulted in these students failure.. ;)
And if you believe they are hamitic, doesn't that mean they are directly descended from Noah? You are a Christian, which means you are supposed to have some faith in the Bible. The Bible, which many other theories are based, relays the nations of the Earth. The Nation always goes through the mother, which is also akin to Islam. Ham (Hamites) -Hagar (Abraham)-Ishmael: Ishmaelites: Arabs. Where the Jews came from the lines of Shechem-Sarah (Abraham) -Isaiac - Jacob/Israel: Israelites: Hebrews: Judeans: Jews, correctly Shechemites.
Marzunta, the Golden Age of islam did exist, and we have many things to thank them for. it seems in your hatred of all things islamic you cannot bring yourself to admit this basic fact of history. Again, you've not read anything I've state formerly. You've not checked any of my referances, facts or cared to open your mind and tolerate viewing the lecture with Andrew Bostom which, more than in-depthly, relates all the information you need to self study into this "poltically correct" Edward Saidian anti-Christian/Jew fabrication. It might be good for you to research your own history prior to delving into others because Christians were also "dhimmi" under the so-called "Golden Age of Islam". Purchase Ba't Yeor's "The Dhimmi"...or read the article I supplie to you on this subject if you don't have time to watch the video. I'm sure Christians also liked having to pay the Jizya, children confiscated and their churches pulled down or made into Mosques...which is occuring today....if you care to open your eyes...
'The Crusades were brought on to re-claim the Holyland from the Mohammadan Jihadists.'
The crusades started because the byzantines, worried about there loss at Manzikert, asked the west for help. Ok, who was in the Holyland first the Christian or the Mohammadan? or better, who was in Israel: the Holyland: Judea first the Judean: Jew, Christian or Mohammadan? Funny, you cannot even recognize that the Mohammadan stole the land via Jihad from the Christian....forget the Jews... Pope Urban duly obliged and the land hungry frankish knights headed east. True...but why? to re-claim the Holyland...Also care to tell us about what they did when they reached jerusalem/Jebus in 1099? They massacred Jews and MohammadansOr is that too uncomfortable? Not at all... documentation by...the name escapes me... stated that they rode up to their bridles in blood... You seem to forget that the expansion of Islam via Jihad (war) was going on almost against the infidel for 469 years prior to the crusades? Care to discuss how Tamorlane's invasion of India and wherever he vanquished he piled high (20feet or better) with skulls of the Hindu worriors, old, young, male, female...all in the example of Mohammad himself? How about educating yourself on Mohammads invasion of Medina, an the elimination of the Banu Qurayza during the Battle of the Trench on March 31, 627? Why do you not research about the Mohammadan's expansion and conquest of, not only India, Afghanistan, Persia or Babylon but Egypt, North Africa, Spain, Greece, Hungary, Bulgaria and what is today known as Turkey? Why do you care not for your own history but continue to embrace anti-Christian history and the disinformation surrounding the enemy of, not only the Jew, Christianity? The Koran and Hadity are very harsh on Christians as you are fit for the Flaming Fires of Hell....
Also you recommend 'The Politically Incorrect Guide to the Crusades'. The title says it all. Spencer does admit Crusader atrocities, but he believes the land hungry nobles were there to reclaim lost territory, whilst ignoring the reality of the 461 yr gap between 638 and 1099, He doesnt' ignore it at all. I think you are hardly in the position to be able to debate Spencer on any subject relating to Islam. Do you even know what "Political Correctness" is? Why it was formed? And who was its formulator?Spencer also isn't too keen in admitting that the crusades were a failure, never mind the squabbling between said nobles about how to divide up the spoils among them. Of course the Crusades were a failure, but Jihad wasn't as much of a failure considering the Mohammadan and his Mohammadanism has invaded, vanquished and enslaved non-Muslim peoples from Asia to Spain. Did you ever research the history of the Gypsies? How do you think the got to Eastern Europe? Where did they come from? Why did they leave? I'm starting to feel, by your wilfull blindness and absolute hatred for Christians/Christianity, due to your ignorance of their history, that you are infact a Mohammadan Koranimal Savage. Before you comment I strongly suggest you go read those holy books of those you've so adamantely embraced their defence. You too continually over look the fact that the Mohammadan has dozens of states that make up almost 1/3rd of this Earth's surface but you're concerned of one tiny Jewish State that is comparable to what Rhode Island?
his other works titles illustrate his rather blatant bias...
'The Truth About Muhammad: Founder of the World's Most Intolerant Religion' If you'd take the time and actually read the Koran/Hadith you'd see he's absolutely correct.....
'Religion of Peace?: Why Christianity Is and Islam Isn't'
'Stealth Jihad: How Radical Islam is Subverting America without Guns or Bombs'
I've never read these ones but I've the Mohammad one and many others. Funny how I can tolerate reading the source documents: Koran, Hadith, Surah and many others...as well the Edward Saidian garbage but you haven't even bothered to read the base documents, forget about the Robert Spencers and Ibn Warraqs.... Yet you supply these ignorant and totally benighted opinions.
You are now trying my patience. I've shown respect and even read through your facts but you cannot and will not bother to tolerate self and independant research into anything I've supplied.
I am out from this subject as you are wasting my time and will not even be open minded, tolerant and truly "progressive" in your closure and intolerance to everything I've aforementioned.
Regards and best,
MarZutra
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'No, I tarnish Islam. '
And by extension all muslims.
'What ethnic cleansing? '
Ahh right, now whose being revisionist. it is FACT that Plan Dalet ethnically cleansed large swathes of palestine and attempted to de-arabise Galilee.
'There is nothing comparable to Nazis Germany or Turkish treatment of the Abanians within Israel.'
The history of the nakba would disagree with you. While not equivalent, one can indeed compare it.
'The Jews were the indigenous peoples of "Palestine" before 1948.'
Ahh so there was only Jews in palestine at the time, nobody else? Were all jews in the world indigenous to palestine at this time?
'the bulk of Arabs came after 1888 to get employment from the Jews who were rebuilding their homelands that they purchased from absentee Turkish and Arab (singular) landlords.'
Read much Joan Peters do we? laughable, really i thought you better than producing this old propaganda. I suggest you burn your copy of 'from time immemorial' as it ranks alongside the 'Protocols of the Elders of Zion' as infamous frauds. Arabs and more precisely those non-jews indigenous to palestine ethnically cleansed during the nakba were semitic people. Your screaming at facts here.
'Ok, who was in the Holyland first the Christian or the Mohammadan?'
The christian faith, but islam is a religion which spread, islam is not a people. So christian converts can conquer land but muslim converts can't is that your belief?
'Care to discuss how Tamorlane's invasion of India'
Tamerlane or more precisely Timur-i-Leng had both turkish and mongol descent. now if you know your history you know the mongols only notionally adopted islam as their faith. Indeed Tamerlane nearly obliterated the ottoman empire at an early stage. his viciousness had little to do with Islam, but its interesting you try and portray it as such. Also you neglect to mention his descendants the Mughals occupied most of india and actually created one of the most religiously tolerant regimes in Islamic history. but this obvioulsy doesn't fit with your agenda of painting islam as the devil.
Im no fan of Edward Said, never mind the fact he was a Christian anyway. You seem to have a bee in your bonnet about him?
'You too continually over look the fact that the Mohammadan has dozens of states'
And what? Are all muslim one people or one ethnic race...what kind of bollox is this? Jews are not one people, or race. Do you think all catholics should live in one country????? Your showing the facist side of zionism now, coveting land not yours. Which is what happened in 1948.
Funny that you mention Ibn Warraqs and his criticism of islam and their societies, but funny also that any jew who criticses the torah or israel is labelled a self-hating anti-semite pig blah blah blah...., may i now expect you to extol the virtues of Norman Finkelsetin or is it just those who criticse the religion you hate that you have time for?
BTW, on a positive note, i have enjoyed our debate, glad it hasn't entered into the usual slagging match.
Regards
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Crusader, your intentions are bad and your obsession to hurt little Israel tells a lot about you.
I remember your former question in this thread:
Is it possible to criticize Israel without being anti-semitic?
::)
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'No, I tarnish Islam. '
And by extension all muslims. For the 4th time, Islam is a faith which you know absolutely nothing about. Good Lord, read about it before you defend something. Like Communism and Nazism Islam is a vile expansionist faith.
'What ethnic cleansing? '
Ahh right, now whose being revisionist. it is FACT that Plan Dalet ethnically cleansed large swathes of palestine and attempted to de-arabise Galilee.Enough of this. You are a brain dead fool. ARABS WITHIN ISRAEL HAVE MORE FREEDOM AFFORDED TO THEM THAN THE RELIGIOUS AND NATIONALISTIC JEW! Your ignorance is truely insulting. You must be a Muslim Nazis Savage to continually be blinded to Muslim human rights violations all over the planet and further defend those who are massacreing your Christian brethren, turning churches in to gabage dumps, mosques or pulling them down. Go visit Mt. Sinai and you'll see a blatant example of the ancient Orthodox Church which has now been desicrated into a Mosque. Please...Go...Check for yourself....
'There is nothing comparable to Nazis Germany or Turkish treatment of the Abanians within Israel.'
The history of the nakba would disagree with you. Do you even know what Nakba is? While not equivalent, one can indeed compare it. One would be a fool to compare Israel's war of independance to that of the Nazi extermination or Muslim extermination of the Albanian Christians. I have no time for foolishness as this. I know of no pits in Israel which were dug for the sole desire to lead Arabs by the hundreds to exterminate. I know know slave camps in Israel for Muslims. There is not one example of racial extermination program in writing or action today. Only a fool would make such a benight comparison. Has your brain actually fallen out from being so "open minded"?
'The Jews were the indigenous peoples of "Palestine" before 1948.'
Ahh so there was only Jews in palestine at the time, nobody else? Were there any Arabians in Israel? Or "Palestinians" in Judea? Funny how you never speak of Jordan which is 77% of "Palestine"? Did you know this or is your hatred of Jews that much so that it blinds you from reality?Were all jews in the world indigenous to palestine at this time? Were All Arabians indigenous to Europe? or even Israel? What's your point. You've continually dismissed in your blindness and dumbdown-ness to even exercise self research. I'm amazed at your closed mindedness...
'the bulk of Arabs came after 1888 to get employment from the Jews who were rebuilding their homelands that they purchased from absentee Turkish and Arab (singular) landlords.'
Read much Joan Peters do we? laughable, really i thought you better than producing this old propaganda. Funny how it is "old propaganda" to which you've never read, amongst other things like the Koran/Hadith to which you further offer factually incorrect and dumbed down opinions.I suggest you burn your copy of 'from time immemorial' as it ranks alongside the 'Protocols of the Elders of Zion' as infamous frauds. Funny, how does it even compare to the Protocols? Have you read them or is this just another ill attempt to make another unqualified and benighted comparison between apples and oranges?Arabs and more precisely those non-jews indigenous to palestine ethnically cleansed during the nakba were semitic people. Really, Comparable to the Arab Muslims today in the Sudan to black Christians? Turkish Muslims against Albanian Christians? Arab Muslims against Hindus? Arab Muslims to Christian Greeks? Turkish Muslims and Greeks? Your screaming at facts here. You're damn right I'm giving facts to which you are incapable to comprehend let alone bother to look up. ???
'Ok, who was in the Holyland first the Christian or the Mohammadan?'
The christian faith, but islam is a religion which spread, islam is not a people. What is your point? Islam is a faith that, AGAIN, commands the Mohammadan, that is the Muslim, ALL Muslims, to make war against the non-Muslim until the end of days. You'd know this if you'd actually read the Koran/Hadith.... Boy you're not to bright are you?So christian converts can conquer land but muslim converts can't is that your belief? Not at all. Your entire arguement is that it is acceptable for the Muslim to conquer the Christians, Hindus, Jews, Zoastars etc. but one is not allowed to fight back and win, especially if it is the Jew and further in reclaimation of their historical homelands.... Are you that indoctrinated that you are really that blinded?
'Care to discuss how Tamerlane's invasion of India'
Tamerlane or more precisely Timur-i-Leng had both turkish and mongol descent. Actually it is Amir Temur/Timur which was a Mohammadan, no matter of what race or ethnic backgroundnow if you know your history you know the mongols only notionally adopted islam as their faith. Perhaps you might care to read Amir Timur's words?
"My principal object in coming to Hindustan.....has been to accomplish two things. The first was to war with the Infidels, the enemies of the Mohammadan religion; and by this religious warfare to acquire some claim to reward in the life to come. The other was....that the army of Islam migh might gain something by plundering the wealth and valuables of the infidels; plunder in war is as lawful as their mothers' milk to Musalmans who war for their faith." - Amir Timur, 1398. - K.S. Lal, "Muslims Invade India," in the Legacy of Muslim Rule in India (New Delhi: Aditya Prakashan, 1992.
Now, I'm sure you're going to cliam that Amir Timur is a liar?
Indeed Tamerlane nearly obliterated the ottoman empire at an early stage. his viciousness had little to do with Islam, Above: ALL ISLAM AND IN THE NAME AND EXAMPLE OF MOHAMMADbut its interesting you try and portray it as such. It is not MY portrait of the example but those of Tamerlanes as well as his own to which he further stated that he killed a hundred thousand infidels alone during his war with Delhi. He states further that he built "victory pillars" from severd heads at many places....a warning to the infidels against Islam... You, my friend, are way out of your leage hear. First you must check your facts and then your sources.... Also you neglect to mention his descendants the Mughals occupied most of india and actually created one of the most religiously tolerant regimes in Islamic history. This has nothing to do with it as the Mongols were not Muslims. Further, Khubilai Khan's experience with Islam/Moslems, as documented by Marco Polo, and I quote:
"Once listening to a reading from the Koran, he discovered taht it laid a command upon Moslems to kill unbelievers. Summoning the chief Mullah to him, Khubilai asked if this were so. The teacher of Islam admitted it. "And you believe that this Koran has been given to you by G-d?" Khubilai demanded. The Mullah assented. "Then why do you not obey its command and slay those who do not believe as you do?" "Because the time has not come, and because we are unable to do it yet." "But I am able to do it," Khubilai assured him and orderd the execution of the Mullah."
Persecutions and expulsions of the Mohammadans throughout Cathay followed this confrontation. So I assume you believe Khubilai Khan, Marco Polo, the Mohammadan Mullah and the Koran itself are lieing considering the exact same is still written within the Koran and the Mohammadan are still making Jihad world wide? How did you get so brain dead. None of this is new to what I state earlier to which I'm continually adding fact which you can check for yourself, though I highly doubt you will considering you've not checked any thus far. PS: That quote is in Marco Polo's Diary and also: March of the Barbarians by Harold Lamb page 267.but this obvioulsy doesn't fit with your agenda of painting islam as the devil. Again you make this fcuked up blind statement without even knowing what Islam is? How can you know what Islam is if You've neither even read the Koran nor Hadith? Are you that dumb? Really? Come on?
Im no fan of Edward Said, never mind the fact he was a Christian anyway. You seem to have a bee in your bonnet about him? Anyone would with a functioning brain. He's a Arabist a propagandist a liar and a fraud. Who self discribes himself to be a "Christian wrapped in a Muslim culture" Who was a full supporter of Islamic and Pan Arab terrorists and he was nothing more than a stone throwing Arabist savage....
'You too continually over look the fact that the Mohammadan has dozens of states'
And what? Jews cannot have ONE, ONE single tiny little plot to call home, even if it was their homeland for thousands of years prior to Roman invasion... You are no Christian. No way can a Christian be this fcuking dumb! The simple fact is that as a Christian who doesn't even see through the fraud that "Palestine" is not mentioned within the New Testament and further Jesus did not know any "Palestinians". Back to re-education for you... G-d this is insulting to anyone with a brain...Are all muslim one people or one ethnic race...what kind of bollox is this? Did I ever say this? NO I didn't! Islam is a religion...Just like Christianity and Judaism....Jews are not one people, or race. Jews are a Nation, a People with a faith called Judaism and a distict culture. Do you think all catholics should live in one country????? No, but you seem to think that Muslims can live and own any lands they wish while the Jew cannot have ONE country of their own. Are there any electrons firing above your shoulders? You are now putting words into my mouth....which I did not say nor eluded to. Your showing the facist side of zionism now, coveting land not yours. Not only can you not read you cannot comprehend what you read as this issue has been fully dealt with about 5 posts ago.Which is what happened in 1948. Oh, here we go again...Dumb dumb Dumb... Where is your contempt for the Mohammadan/Islamist/"Palestinians" for "Black September" in Jordan or those Maronite Christians like Brigette Gabriel from Www.AmericanCongressForTruth.Com who is an ARAB Christian whose family was massacred as the Moslem hord rolled over once peaceful and CHRISTIAN Lebanon? G-d it is actually insulting to my intelligence that I sit here and actually respond to your nonsense...
Funny that you mention Ibn Warraqs and his criticism of islam and their societies, but funny also that any jew who criticses the torah or israel is labelled a self-hating anti-semite pig blah blah blah...., because they are. I'll bet you know nothing about Jews, Judaism and further their history? It is the exact same situation when you have idiots like Jimmy Carter or Bill Clinton with parade Bibles in hand [censored] over Christianty and the true Christians making the exact same comments to their immoral debauchery. You'd not know this because you know nothing about Christianity. Further for your enlightenment, should you happen to read the Quran, the same applies to the Muslim/Islam only it is commanded to their deaths... Go---read---don't believe me---read it for yourself.... may i now expect you to extol the virtues of Norman Finkelsetin or is it just those who criticse the religion you hate that you have time for?Yes, Norman Finkelstein, like Noam Chomsky are disgraces and do irrepairable damage to their own people, culture etc. The worst attrocities of all times, applicable to any and all religions and socio-political ideologies are caused by those who convert out of their faith into another, in this case from Judiasm to Socialism or Communism. Further if you will note most persections of the "Dhimmi": Jews and Christians, by the Moslems were initiated and agitated by the ex-Christian and ex-Jew...fact...
BTW, on a positive note, i have enjoyed our debate, glad it hasn't entered into the usual slagging match.
You are most welcome, I just wish you were more open minded and tolerant towards self researching into all of the numerously aforementioned facts of reality and not live in this tragically molested bubble of "useful idiots". You are right, my arms would probably get tired....although it would have been a good workout ;)
Regards
Regards... ps: excuse my words of anger....I really don't like being insulted, nor made to be an ignoramus especially if one doesn't take the time to truly challenge my words by looking into their qualifications/sources.
Mar Zutra
PS: The thing that truly chaps my donkey is the fact that no one ever researches into the fact that "Palestine" was never, in this Earth's billions of years of history, an independant functioning country, entity, state or nation. Therefore there are NO PALESTINIAN PEOPLE....PERIOD!
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'because they are.'
Sums it up really, any Jew who criticise Israel is a self-hater. But people from other faiths can criticise their own faiths and no such condemnation. Why are all the Jews one nation, from the balck ethiopians to the western settlers in Palestine? Can every faith claim this or is judaism special?
You claim because the Palestinians never had a central system of govt or a seat at the UN or league of nations this forgoes their right to nationhood. tell me i suppose you think kenya or Ireland should still be ruled by the british because the same applies? What kind of imperial [censored] mentality is that?
'Funny how you never speak of Jordan which is 77% of "Palestine"?'
hang on i thought palestine didn't exist?
'Funny how it is "old propaganda"'
Are you suggesting Joan Peters 'From Time Immemorial' is a decent academic work? Serious question.
'Where is your contempt for the Mohammadan/Islamist/"Palestinians" for "Black September"'
This from a guy who denies the Nakba. Where is your contempt for the activities of the irgun or Stern gang, Carmeli brigade et al? the Palestinians learnt terrorism for the white Jewish zionist settlers.
'One would be a fool to compare Israel's war of independance to that of the Nazi extermination or Muslim extermination of the Albanian Christians.'
Everything in the world can be compared, the word your looking for is equivalence. only a fool who seeks to deny history would no compare events.
No harm to you marzunta, but you reiterate the same old lies which has been debunked many times over.
Regards.
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Funny how everything that one doesn't research for themselves a lie no?
Quite frankly, I'm tired of all the Moslems murdering, raping, robbing, rocketing, bombing my people. If it comes down to a choice between your "Palestinian" Koranimal friends and my people, I'd not lose any sleep if the entirety of the Islamic, communist and Nazi world was eliminated to the last.
You cannot even entertain base logica. If one comes to murder you do you wait and bargain? Offer them flushing toilets? No you KILL THEM!!
Please don't post to me anymore, I've given you more than an opportunity to pose one logical and factually backed arguement, instead you do nothing but post unfounded ignorance...
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Unfortunately it is you Marzunta who jhas posted debunked lies and it is you who has chosen to denigrate a whole religion with the actions of a few. it is you who advocates the slaughter now of those you disagree with, it is you now who denies the suffering Jews have inflicted on others. Tell me are jews incapable of doing wrong? Are jews incapable of murder, rape, and fascism? it seems from you writing that they are. you seek to condemn the religion of Islam based upon some of its excerpts, are you suggesting the christian bible or the holy jewish scriptures have no such unsavoury elements? please tell me they don't, i'd like to hear that.
You just wrote this...
'If one comes to murder you do you wait and bargain? Offer them flushing toilets? No you KILL THEM!!'
how then with a straight face can you condem palestinian violence ?
Also, do you think the british should still rule india or Ireland or kenya?
Also do you think Joan Peters 'From Time Immemorial' is a decent piece of academic study?
it seems these are uncomfortable questions for you?
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<snip>
You just wrote this...
'If one comes to murder you do you wait and bargain? Offer them flushing toilets? No you KILL THEM!!'
how then with a straight face can you condem palestinian violence ?
<snip>
regarding this..
Although it is easy to show the moral difference between israel's violence and palestinian violence..
It's besides the point
Rabbi Meir Kahane ztl hyd, DID NOT condemn palestinian violence!!!!
He didn't cry to the world "oh, the palestinians as so evil, what they are doing"
Suppose that for whatever reason, somebody is coming to kill me, and i'm coming to kill him..
Who do I give priority to?
There's certainly no question that with the palestinians, they give priority to themselves.
This universal idea is a western idea that is propagated beautifully in star trek, but it's certainly not how arabs think. And I don't think that we should lay down our lives to defend that value..
Unfortunately, jewish hospitals and very I suppose the term may be secular humanist.. They treat everybody, arab and jew, arab terrorist or israeli soldier, with no priority one way or the other. See brigitte gabriel's interview.
She sees the humanity.. But really it's stupid.. If you're at war. Wars go on forever now because the west has forgotton how to fight wars.
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Firstly, I'd like to openly apologize for what commentary will follow to all the righteous and moral abiding Jews and Christians, the Mohammadan's don't count so if they are too offended....GOOD!!
q_q_, this Arab dumb dumb has no concept of logic,reasoning or base reading comprehension. Read some of his posts..
Crusader, you have not answered any of my questions, nor looked, researched, checked any of my facts because you're too dumb.
YES, like Communism, one can paint ALL with the same brush! You're so fcuking dumb that you cannot even debate let alone read? You Islamic savage! You dumb Koranimal! You know How I know you're a stupid Moslem is because you will not make any comments against your awful murderous contorted faith. Your "prophet" was a pedophile, a theif, a slave driver and he was so dumb he couldn't even think of anything origional when he dictated the Koran because he couldn't even read or write. Illiterate dumb dumb.... Imagine, not only stealing subject and persona from the Jewish Bible only to distort them. Heck Mohammad was so dumb he didn't even realize the 7 Seven Sleepers of Ephesus was a Christian myth. He couldn't even get that story right..
You have tried my patience. I should have known from the beginning you were an Arab Koranimal Savage. You people are so fcuking stupid that you cannot even understand base 2+2 reasoning. Thanks for coming out. I'll make sure JTF sends you a thanks for coming out pin or T-Shirt.
Perhaps when you return to your turd hole you might take more of your Koranimal friends with you. The day will come my friend when Ol-Whitey will wake up from his stupor and you bastards will get exactly what's coming to you! You will get EXACTLY what the Koran/Hadith dictates to do to the Infidel but it WILL be the INFIDEL THAT DOES IT TO YOU!! PAY BACK WILL BE A BIT-H MY SHORT PECKERED FRIEND!! Fcuking animal savages! Perhaps now that your brethren from the "Religion of Pieces" have turned their "Allah Akbars" on China the Communists will roll through the Islamic toilet like the Mongols...
As your smelly 3 toothed Arabettes say Yallalallalalallalallalalaaa... How many Moslems are there anyway? 1.2 billion and they've managed to be awarded, what, 8 Nobel Prizes? Imagine if there were no such thing as "political correctness" or "Affirmative Action" you'd not have any!
shove off you greasy dumb sand spider..... Go back and rape your wife and stop [censored] about here... I'll let you borrow my razor for her back if you'd like? ;)
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Now THAT'S how you should have been debating the evil piece of excrement !
Sometimes we like to entertain the notion that we can hone our debating skills by debating moooozies and their sympathizers; Or that we might even convince a moooozie that mohamhead was a filthy, illiterate, pedophile, thief, mass murderer, lying, scumbag and Islam is nothing more than a reflection of ole mo. Alas, this is a fallacy.
Debating moooozies is a total and complete waste of time.
You're better off trying to explain to a rabbit why we only see one side of the moon.
It's impossible to rationally deal with irrational people. And nothing can be more irrational than to witness the unending, relentless, daily carnage moooozies perpetrate in the name of Islam and yet still have morons like Crusader defend the Koranimal cult of death and despair.
That being said, the plethora of information and depth of the knowledge you exhibited in this 'debate' was quite impressive, Marzutra. Unfortunately, it was wasted on the brain dead Crusader, but enlightening to those with functioning neurons.
Keep up the good work.
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Most jews in the world today have no genetic link to the middle east, so how can they be coming home?
there was a small number of indigenous jews in Palestine prior to 1948. they have a right to be there. White settlers are just colonizing a land they have no link to except there religion was founded there. Are you suggesting as a chrisitian i have a right to invade palestine as well because christianity was founded there?
Give it up, Mr. White Settler. You are obviously a White Nationalist troll from Whorefront.
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'No, I tarnish Islam. '
And by extension all muslims.
Not true. Only those muslims who follow the nazi religion Islam authentically. Because its the (false) religion Islam that is the problem. Of course any Muslims who authentically follow that satanic nonsense are also the problem. But of course one must admit, not all "muslims" do follow it authentically. But hundreds of millions do and they certainly hate Jews as their religion commands them to.
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'Give it up, Mr. White Settler.'
Im a european, ive not settled anywhere. unlike the zionists in land which they stole.
'Crusader, you have not answered any of my questions'
on the contrary i have, it is you who avoids the difficult questions colonist.
how then with a straight face can you condem palestinian violence ? - not answered
Also, do you think the british should still rule india or Ireland or kenya? - not answered
Also do you think Joan Peters 'From Time Immemorial' is a decent piece of academic study? - not answered
Fond of not answering yourself aren't you colonist?
'You know How I know you're a stupid Moslem is because you will not make any comments against yourawful murderous contorted faith.'
Actually im a white catholic. but hey, that attitude your displaying reminds me of a small man in with a moustache in germany in the 30s.
'The day will come my friend when Ol-Whitey will wake up from his stupor and you bastards will get exactly what's coming to you!'
Again quite a nazi statement, don't you think?
'Although it is easy to show the moral difference between israel's violence and palestinian violence..
It's besides the point'
yes it is Palestinians have a moral right to take that which forcibly taken from them. Jewish settler violence was facist, not moral at all.
'Suppose that for whatever reason, somebody is coming to kill me, and i'm coming to kill him..
Who do I give priority to?'
Ahh but it was the whit jewish colonists who came to kill and ethnically cleanse the palestinians in 1948
'Unfortunately, jewish hospitals and very I suppose the term may be secular humanist.. They treat everybody, arab and jew, arab terrorist or israeli soldier, with no priority one way or the other.'
Really? do you even read the news?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/aug/04/israelandthepalestinians.middleeast1
'I'd not lose any sleep if the entirety of the Islamic, communist and Nazi world was eliminated to the last.'
Hitler didn't lose much sleep over his attempt to wipe out all the Jews did he? Seems you have something in common.
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'I'd not lose any sleep if the entirety of the Islamic, communist and Nazi world was eliminated to the last.'
Hitler didn't lose much sleep over his attempt to wipe out all the Jews did he? Seems you have something in common.
Why are you such an imbecile? This is the most childish remark I've seen in a long time.
He won't lost much sleep. - Hitler didn't lose much sleep when he killed the Jews.
He has a favorite color - Hitler had a favorite color when he killed the Jews.
He hates something - Hitler hated something when he killed the Jews.
STOP COMPARING JEWS TO HITLER YOU SICK FREAK.
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Im not comparing all jews to hitler, just those zionists who stole land not their own, like hitler, who ethnically cleansed areas of land, like Hitler, who believe a people or a religion to be inferior than their own, like Hitler, who would like to see those people wiped out, like Hitler....thse views are here for all to see, so zionists may not like to admit but it is facist just like Nazism was.
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Im not comparing all jews to hitler, just those zionists who stole land not their own, like hitler, who ethnically cleansed areas of land, like Hitler, who believe a people or a religion to be inferior than their own, like Hitler, who would like to see those people wiped out, like Hitler....thse views are here for all to see, so zionists may not like to admit but it is facist just like Nazism was.
I think this is your last post here. >:(
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Im not comparing all jews to hitler, just those zionists who stole land not their own, like hitler, who ethnically cleansed areas of land, like Hitler, who believe a people or a religion to be inferior than their own, like Hitler, who would like to see those people wiped out, like Hitler....thse views are here for all to see, so zionists may not like to admit but it is facist just like Nazism was.
You show an incredible amount of ignorance. There is not even any comparison. For one, the muslims there are actually aligned with hitler and call for the extermination of all Jews. You can actually see them execute the nazi salute where they claimed hitler never "finshed the job".
You are a fool and your argument is a joke.
You are banned.
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Im not comparing all jews to hitler, just those zionists who stole land not their own, like hitler, who ethnically cleansed areas of land, like Hitler, who believe a people or a religion to be inferior than their own, like Hitler, who would like to see those people wiped out, like Hitler....thse views are here for all to see, so zionists may not like to admit but it is facist just like Nazism was.
You show an incredible amount of ignorance. There is not even any comparison. For one, the muslims there are actually aligned with hitler and call for the extermination of all Jews. You can actually see them execute the nazi salute where they claimed hitler never "finshed the job".
You are a fool and your argument is a joke.
You are banned.
Thank you Shlomo :)
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With a name like "Crusader" you know he has to be an anti-Semite. ;D Good riddance to bad rubbish.
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Thank you Shlomo. In the beginning this fellow started an actual debate. Sadly, he cannot even hold a logical thought. He'd of made a great punching bag. ;)
I'll bet he's another product of European Anti-American/Anti-Jew "progressive" education?
Funny, I was reading up on Afghanistan on Wikipedia and they have the audacity to state: The region of Afghanistan became the center of various important empires, including that of the Samanids (875–999), Ghaznavids (977–1187), Seljukids (1037–1194), Ghurids (1149–1212), and Timurids (1370–1506). Among them, the periods of Ghaznavids[44] of Ghazni, and Timurids[45] of Heart are considered as some of the most brilliant eras of Afghanistan's history.
But no mention on HOW the Mohammadan conquered the area nor why. This is the distortions and wilfully benighted agenda pushing, akin to promulgating this fabrication of a "Golden Age of Islam" and contorting Islam into something it is not. Wikipedia, Google and mainstream Establishment media know full well that their viewers are dumbed-down lazy sons of [censored] that don't have the, and few will ever take the, initive to actually read the Koran/Hadith, Islamic history let alone their own.
This crusader was a fool. I actually challenge anyone on this forum to go back through my posts and tell me where I've A. Lied or B. never attempted to answer this [censored] questions. Ah, nevermind, I'm just venting.... My apologies... :)
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It looks like that troll RepublicanStones returned to do more trolling as Crusader. Luckily Shlomo banned him.
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By using the name Crusader he was trying to throw us off ,i think he was either a muslim or a athheist i'm sure he was'nt a Christian
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'Give it up, Mr. White Settler.'
Im a european, ive not settled anywhere. unlike the zionists in land which they stole.
'Crusader, you have not answered any of my questions'
on the contrary i have, it is you who avoids the difficult questions colonist.
how then with a straight face can you condem palestinian violence ? - not answered
Also, do you think the british should still rule india or Ireland or kenya? - not answered
Also do you think Joan Peters 'From Time Immemorial' is a decent piece of academic study? - not answered
Fond of not answering yourself aren't you colonist?
'You know How I know you're a stupid Moslem is because you will not make any comments against yourawful murderous contorted faith.'
Actually im a white catholic. but hey, that attitude your displaying reminds me of a small man in with a moustache in germany in the 30s.
'The day will come my friend when Ol-Whitey will wake up from his stupor and you bastards will get exactly what's coming to you!'
Again quite a nazi statement, don't you think?
'Although it is easy to show the moral difference between israel's violence and palestinian violence..
It's besides the point'
yes it is Palestinians have a moral right to take that which forcibly taken from them. Jewish settler violence was facist, not moral at all.
'Suppose that for whatever reason, somebody is coming to kill me, and i'm coming to kill him..
Who do I give priority to?'
Ahh but it was the whit jewish colonists who came to kill and ethnically cleanse the palestinians in 1948
'Unfortunately, jewish hospitals and very I suppose the term may be secular humanist.. They treat everybody, arab and jew, arab terrorist or israeli soldier, with no priority one way or the other.'
Really? do you even read the news?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/aug/04/israelandthepalestinians.middleeast1
'I'd not lose any sleep if the entirety of the Islamic, communist and Nazi world was eliminated to the last.'
Hitler didn't lose much sleep over his attempt to wipe out all the Jews did he? Seems you have something in common.
IF you were Catholic, you would NOT have such animosity. Zionists "stole" NOTHING. 1948-Israel- League of Nations- ring a bell? Whatever is law, is KOSHER in the site of G-D AND MAN. DEAL with it. IF you read your OWN book- nothing has changed in the "Tanach" "I will bless those that BLESS you, and CURSE those that curse you. IN YOU, ALL of the nations WILL BE BLESSED.""
Do you think that G-d is as YOU? WHO NEVER changes?
Let G-d be TRUE, and every MAN a liar.