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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: muman613 on May 14, 2014, 04:02:49 PM

Title: Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over
Post by: muman613 on May 14, 2014, 04:02:49 PM
I have not read the story fully yet but would like to share this breaking story... It appears from the headline that a deal with the Vatican has been in the works to hand over some 'control' of the Tomb of King David to the Catholic church. Even this sounds very disturbing though and there should be massive protests against this. As the article suggests, it is surely a slippery slope to giving up our entire heritage in the land Hashem gave us.



http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/180625

Report: Vatican Will Gain More Control Over King David's Tomb
Israel may not transfer the site to the Vatican outright, but it might allow more Christian control over the site. Is this a slippery slope?

Israel's envoy to the Vatican denied Wednesday that there is a deal in the works to transfer the ownership of King David's Tomb to the Church.

But Rabbi Yaakov Sevilla, an activist for King David's Tomb who has told Arutz Sheva previously that there is such a deal at play, insisted once against Wednesday that a deal is in the works - one which gives the Church more control over the site.

Rabbi Sevilla was asked to open a room at the complex recently, ahead of a conference with Tourism Minister Uzi Landau and other officials over Pope Francis's upcoming visit. The Holy See is already scheduled to hold Mass at the site during the two-day visit, in the Cenacle, or room alleged to be the site of Jesus's Last Supper, one floor above King David's Tomb.

Rabbi Sevilla opened the door and was shocked to allow multiple staffs into the room, including several representatives from the Prime Minister's Office (PMO), the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA), the Ministry of Tourism, security forces, and the Jerusalem municipality. Sevilla sat in the corner of the room to listen in on the hearing.

Several security members at the hearing asked him to leave, he alleged, but he managed to stay despite the pressure. The hearing discussed "clearing the air" before the Papal visit, which continues to be a source of media fascination and controversy.

To do this, Rabbi Sevilla said, the State has decided to extend the numbers of days per year that Christians can pray at the Cenacle. Currently, Catholic worshippers are allowed to hold Mass at the site one day per year. However, according to the Rabbi, the State intends to extend this to sixty.

Rabbi Sevilla objected to the measure, saying that the move could change the religious "status quo" of the site. All present at the hearing, however, insisted that the deal had already been established with the Vatican - whether or not he agreed. The agreement will reportedly be finalized after the Pope's visit - and the State has stressed emphatically that it will not renege on the terms of any agreement it has signed thus far with the Holy See.

Rabbi Sevilla noted that the deal confirms that there is not, as far as he knows, an intention to hand over the site to the Vatican - but only to give the Vatican more control over the Christian elements of the site.

However, he stressed, this is a slippery slope; the same logic was used when handing more control over the Temple Mount to the Waqf, and the move resulted in full sovereignty over Judaism's holiest site.

Rabbi Sevilla added that the Christian world has experienced a serious revival over the past several months over the Tomb, and that mass prayer rallies and demonstrations have been planned for the Cenacle to strengthen a Christian presence there.

While he obviously disagrees with this, the Rabbi also warned that this is not intended to cause discord between the Jewish and Christian communities.

"We will act peacefully - and I do not want anyone to do something extreme or terrible that could, possibly, harm Christian tourism," Rabbi Sevilla said. Besides for the loud protests which erupted at the site Monday, Rabbi Sevilla added another example: a conversation he had with a man from the North who insisted that he will start an underground resistance movement over the measure.

"The Jewish people will not forgive anyone who walks down this path," he warned.
Title: Re: Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over
Post by: Rubystars on May 14, 2014, 04:05:12 PM
They have no right to do this.  >:(
Title: Re: Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over
Post by: muman613 on May 14, 2014, 04:06:32 PM
They have no right to do this.  >:(

It is Jewish heritage and NOBODY, not even Bibi the almighty, has any right to do this.

Title: Re: Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over
Post by: Ephraim Ben Noach on May 14, 2014, 04:44:32 PM
This is a weird question, is there any chance that they are doing all of these evil things on purpose to cause pain to Israel, in hopes of Moshiach?
Title: Re: Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over
Post by: Tag-MehirTzedek on May 14, 2014, 05:39:43 PM
This is a weird question, is there any chance that they are doing all of these evil things on purpose to cause pain to Israel, in hopes of Moshiach?

 No. This is crazy thinking and actions. They are doing this because they don't give a F%^k about anything Jewish.
Title: Re: Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over
Post by: Manch on May 14, 2014, 06:35:00 PM
No. This is crazy thinking and actions. They are doing this because they don't give a F%^k about anything Jewish.
Completely agree! Impossible in any other sane country. This a "thank you!" to Vatican for enabling the Holocaust and for the millenniums of persecutions against Jews.   
Title: Re: Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over
Post by: Ephraim Ben Noach on May 14, 2014, 06:37:47 PM
This is a weird question, is there any chance that they are doing all of these evil things on purpose to cause pain to Israel, in hopes of Moshiach?
I better clarify. .. I was talking about Israel's leaders.
Title: Re: Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over
Post by: Tag-MehirTzedek on May 14, 2014, 06:58:05 PM
Completely agree! Impossible in any other sane country. This a "thank you!" to Vatican for enabling the Holocaust and for the millenniums of persecutions against Jews.

 The Erev-rav are Am Yisrael's greatest enemies. They do everything to uproot and destroy the Torah and Am Yisrael. Peww on them. Our biggest enemies.
Title: Re: Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over
Post by: kahaneloyalist on May 14, 2014, 07:18:40 PM
Sadly this is nothing new. The chiloni elite want to sever the Jews from their ties to the holy places. They did the same on Har HaBayit.
Title: Re: Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over
Post by: Binyamin Yisrael on May 14, 2014, 11:04:43 PM
The Hilltop Youth can seize the building if they want. If they can get to isolated hilltops throughout Judea and Samaria, there is no reason why they can't do that on Mount Zion. I wrote about this about 10 years ago. I remember there were rumors back then that Israel would trade it in return for a synagogue in Spain that the Catholics made into a church.


Title: Re: Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over
Post by: Every Jew AK47 on May 15, 2014, 03:49:20 AM
The self-hating Jewish race.. What more can I say..  As of late, I have not been happy being a Jew or going to shul..  All naive brain-dead Jews talk about is their tennis club, the son's summer camp or the great cruise they are going to be taking..   My new synagogue is having Harry Potter themed Shabbat night.. woohoo..  I was going to suggest to the rabbi at my Chabad that instead we have Masada themed Shabbat night, I think it is much more appropriate for the occasion?  A group of Jewish zealots who fought to the bloody end against Roman invaders seeking to conquer our land and destroy our race.  These are the same people with a different style robe seeking to reignite the Crusades to capture Jerusalem!!
 
We should declare war on both of the old Crusaders, the Catholics and the Muslims.. Both are the enemy of the Jewish people and always will be.. My condolences to good Catholics out there who want no part of the evilness of their Catholic monarchy which has run their religion with an iron fist for generations just as the Islamists are run by their own sultans and form of monarchy, especially the Shias, who's ayatollah more or less function's as an Islamic pope.

I say EVERY LAST JEW IS DEAD AT THE HANDS OF THE CRUSADERS AND JEWISH TRAITORS BEFORE WE GIVE UP THE TOMB!!  >:(
Title: Re: Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over
Post by: Dr. Dan on May 15, 2014, 06:35:08 AM
Those who forget history are doomed to be done to them what had happened to his ancestors.
Title: Re: Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over
Post by: Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks on May 15, 2014, 08:02:07 AM
The self-hating Jewish race.. What more can I say..  As of late, I have not been happy being a Jew or going to shul..  All naive brain-dead Jews talk about is their tennis club, the son's summer camp or the great cruise they are going to be taking..   My new synagogue is having Harry Potter themed Shabbat night.. woohoo..  I was going to suggest to the rabbi at my Chabad that instead we have Masada themed Shabbat night, I think it is much more appropriate for the occasion?  A group of Jewish zealots who fought to the bloody end against Roman invaders seeking to conquer our land and destroy our race.  These are the same people with a different style robe seeking to reignite the Crusades to capture Jerusalem!!
 
We should declare war on both of the old Crusaders, the Catholics and the Muslims.. Both are the enemy of the Jewish people and always will be.. My condolences to good Catholics out there who want no part of the evilness of their Catholic monarchy which has run their religion with an iron fist for generations just as the Islamists are run by their own sultans and form of monarchy, especially the Shias, who's ayatollah more or less function's as an Islamic pope.

I say EVERY LAST JEW IS DEAD AT THE HANDS OF THE CRUSADERS AND JEWISH TRAITORS BEFORE WE GIVE UP THE TOMB!!  >:(
It could be a whole lot worse. At least the people of your shul care about relatively normal, mundane things, even if they are irrelevant to the world. A lot of shuls would only talk about negroes or sodomite marches or snivel-rights for the Fakestinians or legalizing the Aztlanist invaders. Are you totally sure that these Jews are beyond redemption? They sound like average middle-class Americans more than irredeemable leftist scum of the earth.
Title: Re: Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over
Post by: Kahane-Was-Right BT on May 15, 2014, 11:03:54 AM
This is a weird question, is there any chance that they are doing all of these evil things on purpose to cause pain to Israel, in hopes of Moshiach?

Huh?
Title: Re: Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over
Post by: Ephraim Ben Noach on May 15, 2014, 11:11:56 AM
Huh?
Like Iran and the 12th Imam. It was just a thought.
Title: Re: Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over
Post by: muman613 on May 15, 2014, 03:59:30 PM
I seriously doubt that those who make these decisions have one iota of faith let alone belief in Moshiach. They are Am-Haaretzim (Dumb ignorant folk) who do everything in their power to avoid any religious obligation (even eating ham sandwiches on Yom Kippur).

Title: Re: Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over
Post by: Tag-MehirTzedek on May 15, 2014, 04:24:10 PM
The self-hating Jewish race.. What more can I say..  As of late, I have not been happy being a Jew or going to shul.. 
I was going to suggest to the rabbi at my Chabad that instead we have Masada themed Shabbat night, I think it is much more appropriate for the occasion?  A group of Jewish zealots who fought to the bloody end against Roman invaders seeking to conquer our land and destroy our race.  These are the same people with a different style robe seeking to reignite the Crusades to capture Jerusalem!!

 We are not a "race" and its stupid to talk like this. And if by this then to stop doing Misswath as a result an even worse thing to do.
 Masada? Naa. Its not a good example of people killing themselves. This is what the hellinists made and perhaps subconsciously want. That is their place. Our place is the Holy Temple.
Title: Re: Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over
Post by: kahaneloyalist on May 15, 2014, 04:27:56 PM
The self-hating Jewish race.. What more can I say..  As of late, I have not been happy being a Jew or going to shul..  All naive brain-dead Jews talk about is their tennis club, the son's summer camp or the great cruise they are going to be taking..   My new synagogue is having Harry Potter themed Shabbat night.. woohoo..  I was going to suggest to the rabbi at my Chabad that instead we have Masada themed Shabbat night, I think it is much more appropriate for the occasion?  A group of Jewish zealots who fought to the bloody end against Roman invaders seeking to conquer our land and destroy our race.  These are the same people with a different style robe seeking to reignite the Crusades to capture Jerusalem!!
 
We should declare war on both of the old Crusaders, the Catholics and the Muslims.. Both are the enemy of the Jewish people and always will be.. My condolences to good Catholics out there who want no part of the evilness of their Catholic monarchy which has run their religion with an iron fist for generations just as the Islamists are run by their own sultans and form of monarchy, especially the Shias, who's ayatollah more or less function's as an Islamic pope.

I say EVERY LAST JEW IS DEAD AT THE HANDS OF THE CRUSADERS AND JEWISH TRAITORS BEFORE WE GIVE UP THE TOMB!!  >:(

As annoying as our brethren are remember how the galut, the exile has poisoned us, and how there are many good Jews as well. The Rebbe himself was a tireless warrior to save Eretz Yisrael from the foolishness of the Israeli government.
Title: Re: Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over
Post by: muman613 on May 15, 2014, 04:40:03 PM
As annoying as our brethren are remember how the galut, the exile has poisoned us, and how there are many good Jews as well. The Rebbe himself was a tireless warrior to save Eretz Yisrael from the foolishness of the Israeli government.

Amen.... This is how I deal with the problem... Jews today are far from where they should be due to the long galut.. We must work doubly as hard to show them what it good and right in Judaism.
Title: Re: Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over
Post by: Every Jew AK47 on May 15, 2014, 05:06:49 PM
We are not a "race" and its stupid to talk like this. And if by this then to stop doing Misswath as a result an even worse thing to do.
 Masada? Naa. Its not a good example of people killing themselves. This is what the hellinists made and perhaps subconsciously want. That is their place. Our place is the Holy Temple.

We are in fact the race from Yehuda and Yisrael..  Some were adopted into the race through conversion.. However, the Jewish people, we are a people, a race and a nation... It is not stupid to speak the truth of what we are...

Masada is a fine example of people willing to die for their precious land.. Sure, they were defeated, but at least they took up arms to fight, what are we doing?? We sit behind our keyboards and just rant, we are not defending our holy nation..   I don't even mean defending it from the obvious enemies, the Arabs/Catholic Crusaders..  I mean the enemy from within, our own heretics/traitors within the Knesset who have caused more grief and hardships than our enemies have..   They care only about deep pockets, not about the holiness and sacredness of Eretz Yisra'el.

I don't see how dressing up like wizards, sorcerers and magicians on Shabbat is going to help bring Moshiach to earth or help us in our struggle against our enemies or re-claiming our lost land and the holy places that are being taken from us as we speak.  SOmehow, I feel like the synagogue is becoming just a social club and the depth of our culture is shunned and dismissed.  E.g., IMO, Torah condemns witchcraft, magic , sorcery, yet here we are in G-d's holy place, that houses his Torah, embracing the forms of evil that Hashem warned us to avoid.  Of course, it's all in good fun right?

Anyhow, I never said I was a good Jew, I am an outcast to my own people, mostly..  I just call it as I see it..   One thing I Can respect about the Muslims is that they will not sit around and look the other way when their holy places are sold into the hands of their enemy.   I am sad to see that Muslims follow their twisted and barbaric religion more than we seem to follow ours, which is holy and righteous..  Muslims also will punish their enemies, traitors among themselves and will do anything necessary to win a war, even if it means killing women and children.  We Jews are too busy trying to make old Mother Europe and the Liberals Abroad happy so that we can be accepted.  Why do we keep looking for sympathy from the same people who put us in gas chambers?  I will never understand Jews, even being one, myself.

Most Jewish women don't even want to be mothers anymore..  Forcing our daughters to join the military or pursue busy careers so they either lose interest or have no time in becoming mothers is another great crime against our race/culture/nation.  The Muslims and Catholics (Crusaders) will beat us with birth rates alone..     Soon, the entire world will either be Muslim or Catholic.  Jews will be something you read about in a history book.. 


Title: Re: Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over
Post by: Binyamin Yisrael on May 15, 2014, 05:11:14 PM
The self-hating Jewish race.. What more can I say..  As of late, I have not been happy being a Jew or going to shul..  All naive brain-dead Jews talk about is their tennis club, the son's summer camp or the great cruise they are going to be taking..   My new synagogue is having Harry Potter themed Shabbat night.. woohoo..  I was going to suggest to the rabbi at my Chabad that instead we have Masada themed Shabbat night, I think it is much more appropriate for the occasion?  A group of Jewish zealots who fought to the bloody end against Roman invaders seeking to conquer our land and destroy our race.  These are the same people with a different style robe seeking to reignite the Crusades to capture Jerusalem!!


Is this synagogue Orthodox? I've heard discussions about whether Harry Potter should be permitted at all. It has witchcraft in it. I remember hearing over 10 years ago that there are some religious kids who read Harry Potter and pretend to make spells with their forks at the Shabbat table because their learn about making spells with wands in Harry Potter.

Title: Re: Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over
Post by: Every Jew AK47 on May 15, 2014, 05:13:19 PM


Is this synagogue Orthodox? I've heard discussions about whether Harry Potter should be permitted at all. It has witchcraft in it. I remember hearing over 10 years ago that there are some religious kids who read Harry Potter and pretend to make spells with their forks at the Shabbat table because their learn about making spells with wands in Harry Potter.

Would you consider the Chabad , Orthodox?? I guess that question alone is up for debate..     But, the more I attend Chabad the more I realize how un-Orthodox it truly is.. At least, the ones where I live.. 
Title: Re: Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over
Post by: muman613 on May 15, 2014, 06:37:14 PM
Would you consider the Chabad , Orthodox?? I guess that question alone is up for debate..     But, the more I attend Chabad the more I realize how un-Orthodox it truly is.. At least, the ones where I live..

Chabad is an Orthodox Jewish organization. The Rabbis of Chabad keep the commandments according to the Shuchan Aruch (which all Orthodox Jews keep)... Chabad does not insist all who attend their services to be Orthodox though, and they are open to Jews of all types.

But Chabad keeps the commandments and provides the ability for others to... I don't know what is wrong with Chabad..

Title: Re: Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over
Post by: Every Jew AK47 on May 15, 2014, 08:37:59 PM
Chabad is an Orthodox Jewish organization. The Rabbis of Chabad keep the commandments according to the Shuchan Aruch (which all Orthodox Jews keep)... Chabad does not insist all who attend their services to be Orthodox though, and they are open to Jews of all types.

But Chabad keeps the commandments and provides the ability for others to... I don't know what is wrong with Chabad..

I cannot blame Chabad as a whole, but the Chabad I am now attending really is raising my eyebrows..  The fact that they think mixing magic, sorcery, witchcraft with the holy day of Shabbat I think is a bit disturbing..  I could expect this type of behavior at a REform shul, but considering my Chabad is having a Harry Potter themed night really makes me question if the Chabad is really a centralized movement anymore or if it has splintered itself and now is being operated independently.  The Rabbi at the Chabad is friends with all the other rabbis in the area and all the other Rabbis are aware that he seems to not have any problem incorporating witchcraft, sorcery etc into  his Kehillot that houses the holy Torah scroll.   

I say a synagogue is a holy place.. I am thinking the Rabbi is trying to entertain the very liberal population of people who attend his shul, but I have never been a fan of modifying halacha to appease the populace. 

Anyhow, it just seems in dire times like these, with our holy places being auctioned off or just given away to the Crusaders (aka Catholics/Muslims), it almost seems biblical that our sinful nature and turning away from Hashem is the reason why.  I think the fact that Jews watch evil movies like Harry Potter and then try to emulate these characters, sorcerers, witches, magificians in the Temple of Worship is only fuel to fire of Hashem's Wrath.  To me, this is Chilul Hashem.  The fact that the Chabad, of all organizations is taking part in it, just adds to the flames even more. 
Title: Re: Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over
Post by: Ephraim Ben Noach on May 15, 2014, 08:47:08 PM
What is this attack Chabad and Catholic day?

You might as well be an old school government controlled Catholic that uses witchcraft against Jew's.

I have never seen the movie. But anyway, technically, what is witchcraft?
Title: Re: Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over
Post by: muman613 on May 15, 2014, 08:47:24 PM
EJA44,

Watching Harry Potter or reading it does not constitute witchcraft according to the Torah. It is possible for a person to read or watch a program which discusses the topic of witches without believing that they really exist. So long as those involved do not believe that there are real witches or that witchcraft is a craft which has power then according to Jewish belief it is OK.

Does your Chabad teach that Harry Potter is real or that witchcraft is real? I seriously doubt that. Having a Harry Potter themed party is not witchcraft, it is supposed to be a fun thing that is popular with a lot of the kids today. I myself have not read or watched a single Potter film or book... But in my days I did read a lot of the Dungeons and Dragons themed stories (which contain stories of magic and sorcery) but I never for a moment believed that they were real.

So I don't know if your protests against this is warranted.

See this discussion on the topic showing that Harry Potter does not represent any Jewish values..



http://www.aish.com/atr/Harry_Potter_and_the_Jews.html
Harry Potter and the Jews

The Harry Potter series is so popular, but it got me wondering: Does it classify as witchcraft? Should children be allowed / encouraged / discouraged in its reading?

The Aish Rabbi Replies:

No one can deny that the Harry Potter stories are riveting entertainment and fine literature. But I suppose the criteria for a rabbi would be: Do they teach Jewish values?

Judaism teaches that the chief purpose of life in this Muggle world is to improve negative character traits. The struggle against venality and small-mindedness is also a struggle against evil. The answer to overcoming meanness and stupidity is not to escape into a fantasy environment, but to help change the world in which one finds oneself.

However, in Harry Potter's world of Hogwarts, there are no ambiguous characters, nor people who undergo moral character development. From the moment of entry into Hogwarts, every one is fixed in place (with the possible exception of Professor Snape).

In Harry Potter's world, this lack of ability to alter one's character and to freely choose sides transforms the epic moral struggle between good and evil into a pure power struggle with no moral implications. Victory hangs on who can come up with stronger magic.

Moreover, there is no attempt at redeeming the evil or transforming it. The good is merely maintaining the status quo, and keeping the evil – in the guise of Lord Voldemort – from gaining a foothold. The evil wants to dominate just because it is evil and hates the good, and vice versa. They are not contending for some prize, either tangible or spiritual, that would accrue to the victor. Their only goal is to destroy each other.

In contrast, the essence of Jewish belief is that the struggle between good and evil is a moral struggle. It takes place in the heart, not in the outside world. The contestants are an individual's conscience against his own urges – i.e. spirituality against the physical life force.

According to Jewish perspective, evil is not repulsive. On the contrary, to insure that it has an even chance to present us with free will choices, God made evil attractive. That appeal levels the playing field, gives evil a fighting chance, and gives us the opportunity to earn eternal reward for choosing the right thing.

Another significant difference between Judaism and Harry Potter is the ability to reclaim a lost human soul.

Judaism says that just as a person can invest his life force in the wrong place through free will, he can also redeem his investment and pull it back again. In a Jewish fairy tale, the hero would battle for the soul of Lord Voldemort and attempt to reclaim it for the good. No human being with the power of free will is irredeemable.

Jews recite the following verse twice daily: "You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your hearts, with all your soul, and with all your resources." (Deut. 6:5) The Talmud interprets the phrase "with all your hearts" (plural) as a reference to the good and evil impulse within us. We are commanded to serve God with our inclination toward evil, as well as our inclination toward good.

No impulse in man is irreclaimable; nothing human is doomed to destruction. The mark of a Jewish hero is transforming evil into good and bringing all back to God. In a Jewish world, where evil can be transformed and reclaimed into good, our ordinary Muggle world is full of magic. Ordinary life becomes a heroic saga.

As far as your question about witchcraft, witchcraft is explicitly forbidden in the Torah (Exodus 22:17). Harry Potter depicts witchcraft, but is not witchcraft itself. Rabbi Moshe Feinstein writes that if a child is aware that something is a fairy tale and not reality, then it may be read for its literary value. ("Igrot Moshe" Y.D. 4:13)
Title: Re: Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over
Post by: muman613 on May 15, 2014, 08:53:13 PM
http://www.jewishanswers.org/ask-the-rabbi-3967/naming-children-after-the-deceased/?p=2254

Spiritualism and Harry Potter

Question: Is Judaism against mediums, fortune tellers, witches, sorcery , etc? I was told that this was a problem and that it was in the Tanach. Is this true? I mean I love Harry Potter books and fantasy/sci-fi. If this is true, what do you tell a Jewish child reading Harry Potter?

Answer: Witchcraft, fortune telling, necromancy, are indeed forbidden in the Torah. See Ex. 22; 17 and Deut. 18; 9-16 for details. You might also like to compare Deut 18; 13 with Deut. 29; 28 which seems to suggest that our job isn’t to put our finger on the pulse of the spiritual universe and achieve a God-like understanding of its inner workings, but to work and live in this world, perfecting ourselves using the tools and wonderful this-worldly gifts that He has given us.

You might also be interested that Maimonides was of the strong opinion that none of these activities had any power or worth, but that the whole genre is a great fraud (and the Torah wants to keep us from fraudulent foolishness). Most other sages disagreed (and felt that, while certainly forbidden, that there was substance to it all), but Maimonides does carry some weight. However, all that doesn’t mean that reading fictional accounts of their practice is equally forbidden. Some Jews do oppose having Jewish children reading the Potter books because of the lifestyle and mindset that they represent. But that feeling certainly isn’t universal.

With my best regards,
Rabbi Boruch Clinton

Title: Re: Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over
Post by: Every Jew AK47 on May 15, 2014, 09:57:12 PM
EJA44,

Watching Harry Potter or reading it does not constitute witchcraft according to the Torah. It is possible for a person to read or watch a program which discusses the topic of witches without believing that they really exist. So long as those involved do not believe that there are real witches or that witchcraft is a craft which has power then according to Jewish belief it is OK.

Does your Chabad teach that Harry Potter is real or that witchcraft is real? I seriously doubt that. Having a Harry Potter themed party is not witchcraft, it is supposed to be a fun thing that is popular with a lot of the kids today. I myself have not read or watched a single Potter film or book... But in my days I did read a lot of the Dungeons and Dragons themed stories (which contain stories of magic and sorcery) but I never for a moment believed that they were real.

So I don't know if your protests against this is warranted.

See this discussion on the topic showing that Harry Potter does not represent any Jewish values..

Obviously, my Chabad doesn't teach that witchcraft is real nor does it teach the tooth fairy is real.. However, there is a big difference between watching a movie, playing a video game/card game/ role-playing game and dressing up and imitating these characters in a holy place of G-d..   

Let me ask you a question on this subject Muman, let's say that we all have a day where we dress up like the Phillistines and I bring an idol of Dagon, the pagan god of the Phillistines into the temple and do a mock worship of it..  Considering, we are just having fun, playing a game, is it ok??  Do you think this may or may not invoke any anger from Hashem, especially being performed in his holy sanctuary??

It's one thing for us to dress up like magicians, sorcerers , witches at a halloween party, but to do this on the Holy Day of Shabbat in his Sanctuary, the Temple, I , myself, just cannot feel comfortable or believe is acceptable in the eyes of G-d.

Now, I am speaking from my own intuition.  You are obivously the more religious and at the level of a Torah scholar; I am just a lowly backwoodsy Jewish guy , with no income, do not own a home, have no, halachic upbriging and not even worth a dime to any Jew where I Live.  Heck, I cannot even afford to own a pair of teffilin right now.   In essence, I am not really that important and most other Jews just sniff and mock at me for any opinions I have.

So, don't take anything I say at face value.


Anyhow, I am still a human and have an opinion, whether it's worth a dime to my fellow Jew or not.   I have just learned we have sold one of our holiest possessions to the Catholic crusaders and that many others are in the hands of the Islamic crusaders.

I just feel that in perilous times as these, dressing up like wizards and sorcerers in his holy sanctuary is not in our best interests.  We should be doing what we can to invoke favor, not enmity with Him.

Somehow, I think invoking an idol of Zeus, Baal, Dagon, Astheroth, Ishtar in the holy sanctuary for fun or not can be bad news.. Same with invoking sorcery.  What if by us playing this game, one Jew who's soul is in a state of weakness, suddenly gives way and decides to embrace these pagan ideologies or start tinkering with sorcery??  Has this not happened in the past?  Perhaps, many of the incidences where Jews were led astray and started worshiping pagan gods started as something that was just a joke or fun..  Who knows.. I say it is Chilul Hashem and that we are playing with fire.. Others, will just say I need to lighten up and have a little fun..

I agree I am not always the most fun company.. I take things  kind of seriously.. That's what a Shoah can do to a man..  The easy life ended when my ancestors were exterminated in my grandmother's village.
Title: Re: Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over
Post by: muman613 on May 15, 2014, 10:09:16 PM
EJA44,

I do not know your Chabad rabbi and thus I don't know what his intention or thought was in doing this.

You know that during Purim it is OK to dress as Haman or Achasverach and other bad guys... But you are talking about a Shabbaton with this theme... You have said your relation with this Rabbi is strained (I think you said this, if not please correct me)... I would ask the Rabbi about it, voicing your concerns...

If you would like I will discuss this with my Chabad rabbi and see what his opinion is...

I sure wish you would find a community where you feel comfortable. Some of the 'self-deprecating' comments you made in your post are a bit upsetting to me to hear a Jew (especially one who associates with the Kahanists) say... Remember that you are not permitted to speak Lashon Hara about yourself too.

You are correct that there should be a certain respect in the Sanctuary (where the Holy ark and the congregation davens)... There should not be levity or any unrelated talk going on there. You have a point which should be discussed with your community if you felt more comfortable.



Title: Re: Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over
Post by: muman613 on May 15, 2014, 10:13:29 PM
http://ohr.edu/this_week/the_weekly_daf/348

When the Torah commanded us to respect the Sanctuary, it did not explicitly define the nature of that respect; theoretically, such respect could include prostrating oneself before the Sanctuary as one would before Hashem. To dispel this notion, the Torah coupled in one passage (Vayikra 19:30) the command to observe Shabbat and to respect the Sanctuary. This is to teach us that just as in regard to Shabbat there is no obligation to show respect by bowing to the day (Rashi since the Torah does not mention "respect" in regard to Shabbat) but rather to the One who commanded us to observe Shabbat, so too the respect required regarding the Sanctuary is not respect for the building, but rather for the One who commanded us regarding the Sanctuary.

But how does one show respect for Hashem through his behavior in the Sanctuary?

Our Sages gave us a number of things we must refrain from doing even on the Temple Mount where the ultimate Sanctuary the Beit Hamikdash stood. This list includes some things, such as the prohibition against wearing shoes, which we do not apply to our "minor sanctuaries" of synagogues. But it also includes not using the Temple Mount as a shortcut for getting from one place to another. This sign of disrespect is prohibited even in regard to a synagogue, and is recorded in Shulchan Aruch (Orach Chaim 151:5).

Using the synagogue as a shortcut, or entering it for the purpose of calling someone there to come out, is considered disrespectful, as it is an exploitation of a holy place for a personal need. The halacha instructs us to eliminate the disrespect involved in such actions by reading some words of Torah or saying some mishna or halacha before indulging in the personal activity. If a person is not able to thus justify his presence, he should ask a child to recite the Torah passage he has just learned or at least sit down for a few moments, for even sitting in a synagogue is considered a mitzvah as indicated in the passage "Fortunate are those who sit in Your house." (Tehillim 84:
Title: Re: Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over
Post by: Every Jew AK47 on May 15, 2014, 10:14:32 PM
EJA44,

I do not know your Chabad rabbi and thus I don't know what his intention or thought was in doing this.

You know that during Purim it is OK to dress as Haman or Achasverach and other bad guys... But you are talking about a Shabbaton with this theme... You have said your relation with this Rabbi is strained (I think you said this, if not please correct me)... I would ask the Rabbi about it, voicing your concerns...

If you would like I will discuss this with my Chabad rabbi and see what his opinion is...

MY relationship with this Rabbi is not strained at all. That was my relationship with another Rabbi at another Chabad in the area.  As a matter of fact, this rabbi seems kinda like the coolest, most hip , easy going rabbi I ever dealt with.    Considering how rigid and strong-headed some Rabbis I have met could be, his personality I find much more palatable.    There is a lot of good things I like about him but perhaps, his easy-going, fun, hip persona may also be his downfall.   I actually like him as a person, but I don't agree with what he is doing..    My concerns are that he is getting a bit too liberal and may result in wrecking havoc on Jewish spirituality and sacredness of Hashem's Holy Temple.   

Indeed, I had a bad interaction with another rabbi and his son at another Chabad who I felt made a mockery of Hashem's Torah on Simchat Torah.  I understand drinking and being happy is part of the holy day, but being s**tfaced drunk, screaming, insulting people and getting rowdy and jumping around with the Torah IMO is insulting and yeah this also struck an arrow in me and took away some of my love and respect for Chabad.  Being the open-minded person I am though, I overlooked this offense and never again attended that particular Chabad.  That Chabad is not the one I am attending anymore and I will never go back to it..  Where I live there is like a dozen Chabads.  I have attended one Chabad that I Felt was had a wonderful rabbi, who was extremely devoted and I wish I could have got to know better, but I moved away frmo him..  As a matter of fact, that particular Chabad was one of the synagogues that help re-ignite my respect for them and also realize not to judge Chabad as a whole , but individually.    I did my last Yom Kippur service at that Chabad..  Notice, I do not give locations, I will not divulge those on the forum.

Purim is a whole other deal.. We are following a mitzvah on Purim and the bad guys are suppose to be bad, not good.. Nobody dresses up like a bad guy on Purim with the intent on glorifying the bad guy.. However, this is The Holy Day of Shabbat and they are dressing up in the characters of a fantasy movie that glorifies magic, sorcery, witchcraft, etc..    If some type of mitzvah is being fulfilled, I sure as heck don't see it.. IT looks more like people are just entertaining themselves and, IMO, playing with fire.
Title: Re: Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over
Post by: muman613 on May 15, 2014, 10:17:22 PM
I hear what you are saying and think you have some points.

Have you asked the Rabbi about this or are you afraid he and the community may have an issue with your concern?

Anyway, here is more information about how we should respect the Sanctuary.


http://www.torah.org/learning/livinglaw/5766/vayeitzei.html

Respect of the Sanctuary: On Sacred Ground

The Mitzvah: The house of G-d necessitates respect and awe, as the verse proclaims "My Sanctuary you shall fear" (Leviticus 19:30). One could not enter the Temple Mount in a lackadaisical fashion, when wearing shoes or carrying money in one's pocket. At all times, it has to be treated with due reverence for the sanctity of the place. (Indeed, this offers a model the contemporary Jew for a synagogue as the Temple-in-miniature). Nowadays, Jews remain forbidden to set foot within the sacrosanct borders of the Temple, as they anxiously wait the rebuilding of the Third Temple speedily in our days.

In this week's parasha, Yaakov distressingly awoke after his prophetic dream of the ladder and his vision of G-d: "Surely G-d is in this place and I did not know" he declared (Genesis 28:16). He had fallen asleep on sacred ground; at the place where the holy Temple would later be built. Yaakov was filled with trepidation that he may not have shown due diligence to revering such a holy site and had not demonstrated enough spiritual sensitivity.

What was the significance of this location? And why should this site demand such veneration?

There are parallels in the sphere of "time", "place" and "soul". In the calendar, the weekdays are "times" of lesser holiness than the sanctity of Sabbath and the Festivals. There are similar demarcations in the realm of "space". The Land of Israel is holier than other countries; Jerusalem is the holiest city and the Temple Mount is the holiest "space" therein.

Of course, this was intentional and is laden with spiritual significance. "Time" and "place" began at this point; expanding outwards from the "Foundation Stone" located in the inner sanctum of the Temple, until the universe was fashioned. (See Talmud, Menachos 29b, Yoma 54b). This contains, in some sense, the key and cornerstone to life.

With its feet set earthward and its top heavenward, the ladder is symbol to man's personal relationship to G-d, and to the world's general relationship with its Creator. Creation was G-d's "desire" that He have a dwelling place in the world below, just as He has up Above (Midrash Tanchuma, Naso 16).

The sanctified parameters of the Temple represent the point where Heaven and Earth join together (See Talmud, Bava Basra 74a). The residence of the Shechinah, Divine Presence is where the spiritual and physical domains merge into one. It is the holy "space" wherein man ascends to experience and enter into a profound, spiritual with his Creator while still within the physical confines of this world. And within himself, mankind similarly transforms his body to become the resting place and holy vessel for his "soul".

The Jewish people climbed up to the Temple on the Three Pilgrimage Festivals (Deuteronomy 16:16-17) as they offered up special sacrifices. This trip would re-energize their appreciation and affinity to spirituality. They were awed by the splendour of the Temple and her vessels. They were dazzled by the dazzling array of miracles that transpired daily (See Ethics of the Fathers 5:7). And they were amazed at the holiness of the house of G-d - that was the locus of the nation and the symbol of Jewish life.

Where entering the court of the king, all concentrated must be directed towards the sovereign. In the palace it is impudent to exhibit a relaxed or even casual demeanor - nothing but full homage to the ruler with exemplary respect and fear. Nothing less is expected in the house of "the King of all kings" - within the Temple. The reverence and respect demanded within the Temple's confines evoked a climate of sensitivity into realizing what life was all about - a serious enterprise where man relates to G-d, existence whose very inception commenced from this point in the creation of the world.

The imagery of Yaakov's ladder provides the rungs and symbolism of what a Jew's life is all about: a life of Kedushah, "Holiness". It is where physical actions on Earth are directed to G-d and channelled to spirituality, where the realms of "time" and "place" are filled with the "soul". All of the person's actions are, accordingly, directed in the service of his Creator, such that even man's body itself becomes transformed into a "house of G-d" (Genesis 28:22).
Title: Re: Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over
Post by: Every Jew AK47 on May 15, 2014, 10:33:37 PM
I hear what you are saying and think you have some points.

Have you asked the Rabbi about this or are you afraid he and the community may have an issue with your concern?

Anyway, here is more information about how we should respect the Sanctuary.

Muman.. You are an encyclopedia of great information of Jewish law, minhag, halacha.  What can I say, I always enjoy your posts!!

Wow, a little deep and I still cannot see how anything you wrote justifies what this Chabad Rabbi is doing.  If anything what you wrote emphasizes my points even more of how holy ,sacred and special is the Sanctuary of Hashem.  Even , just walking in and walking out is considered dishonoring.   


There is no way I will confront this Rabbi or attempt to change his synagogue.  As I stated, I am a lowly Jew who others look down upon.  I am not an honorable and well-learned Jew like yourself.  However, I would think a person with so much knowledge of halacha as yourself would be the more appropriate person to confront him.    Most synagogues don't even want me around because I do not have much money and do not offer much in ways of halachic knowledge .  Maybe, one day when I become a more learned Jew I can stand up to what I feel are injustices in the religious community more.  FOr now, I just sojourn and keep my mouth shut.  IF i don't like what I see , I just move on.   I vent my frustration about my pathetic life or misdeeds I encounter in the Jewish community here on web forums.. 

As for me, I would like to embrace a more traditional , ancient way of life.. I was even considering going to Yemen and trying to find the long lost Yemenite Jews and experiencing a very ancient traditional way of life.  When you wrote about how Jews were not even suppose to wear shoes in the synagogue, it really struck a nerve in me, as the Yemenite Jews in Yemen would never enter the synagogue with shoes.  Also, they would sit on the floor during prayer, as to be closer to Hashem or something as of that. Most modern synagogues are designed after Orthodox churches with the long pews, etc.  Our modern synagogues incorporated some western customs into our kehillot.  Hence, why we now wear shoes, fedora-style hats, pants and sit on pews rather than wear chaluk, turbans, remove our shoes and sit on the floor.  Rabbi Moshe Ben Maimon has always been an inspiring character to me with regards to eastern Jewish minhag and style of worship, dress, etc.

My friend David sought out these lost Yemenite Jewish communities and almost lost his life..  I am at the point soon, where I feel a trip to seek out lost ancient Jewish communities would be a great fulfilling deed for me, even if I have to die in the process.. 
Title: Re: Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over
Post by: Binyamin Yisrael on May 15, 2014, 10:49:10 PM
Some Orthodox synagogue have magic shows for kids during Hanukkah parties. It's allowed because we know it's not real and there is some trick that the magicians use.

Title: Re: Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over
Post by: muman613 on May 15, 2014, 10:49:29 PM
Shalom EJA44,

Do not sacrifice your life... Yemen is dangerous for Jews... Judaism does not require that we sacrifice our lives except for the cardinal 3 (Idolatry, Murder, and Sexual immorality) See http://www.aish.com/atr/Big_3_Cardinal_Sins.html...

You should be able to find a community of Jews which respect you and honor you. I am sorry it seems like money is the issue. My Chabad gives honor to just about everyone who comes regardless of whether they contribute money or are new to the community. But we all live in different communities and things are not the same everywhere.

If you have any questions please feel free to ask me. I have several Rabbis I respect who I can call with any difficult questions.

I will take up this issue with my Chabad rabbi this Shabbat (regarding the Harry Potter Shabbaton)...

Title: Re: Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over
Post by: Every Jew AK47 on May 16, 2014, 02:29:11 PM
Shalom EJA44,

Do not sacrifice your life... Yemen is dangerous for Jews... Judaism does not require that we sacrifice our lives except for the cardinal 3 (Idolatry, Murder, and Sexual immorality) See http://www.aish.com/atr/Big_3_Cardinal_Sins.html...

You should be able to find a community of Jews which respect you and honor you. I am sorry it seems like money is the issue. My Chabad gives honor to just about everyone who comes regardless of whether they contribute money or are new to the community. But we all live in different communities and things are not the same everywhere.

If you have any questions please feel free to ask me. I have several Rabbis I respect who I can call with any difficult questions.

I will take up this issue with my Chabad rabbi this Shabbat (regarding the Harry Potter Shabbaton)...

I appreciate your help on the issue and understanding my concerns.   Also, I would be interested to hear what your Chabad rabbi has to say about the issue.

Considering the goofiness or awkwardness of the Chabad I am attending, I thought I may entertain my own form of weirdness.    Since people there seem to be ok with dressing up as wizards and sorcerers, I thought I would attend one of my services dressed up as a Teimani Jew, wearing turban/kippa combo and a chaluk.    I will not be phased by a person wearing a wizard's robe telling me that I am breaking the minhag by dressing up as a Teimani..   ::)
Title: Re: Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over
Post by: Every Jew AK47 on May 18, 2014, 07:47:50 AM
I've decided I am going to leave this very LIBERAL college Chabad.  I cannot deal with all the spoiled brat college pukes who attend there and the rabbi who just overlooks all the offenses that are being committed at this shul.  It's sad this place had to bear the "Chabad logo".   They invited two goyim to attend the synagogue.  I don't exactly know the rules.  However, one of the non-Jewish guys was not wearing a kippa and I told him he needs to put on a kippa when he is in a synagogue.    His idiot friend then tells him to take it off and that he doesn't need to wear it..  Was I in the wrong?  As far as I know in any Orthodox synagogue, you are suppose to wear a kippa.  Does being next to a college campus mean you no longer have to follow halacha to appease the liberal college kids who attend your shul?

The people there treat me like I am some type of crazed religious psycho.  It appears to be more of a cool, hip college hangout than a holy and righteous place of G-d.  BTW, they supposedlky welcome everybody so should not be treating non-college people with contempt, like they do.  I just about knocked out this one snotty rich kid who started bitching at me for consuming kosher protein powder while I was at the synagogue.  This was after the moron told me he eats pork and shellfish and that it is no big deal.  I am like why are you b*tching at me for consuming kosher protein powder, when you admit you break some of the most important rules of kashrut and have no shame, eating pork and shellfish.     Then the guy starts mocking me for liking Israeli music and asks me what Mizrachi music or Mizrachi Jews are??  I am thinking to myself, do you know anything about Jews, besides the ones you grew up with in your liberal Amercian synagouge in the most wealthy city of the metro area???   He starts just laughing cause he deems me not cool as him and his spoiled bratty college friends.  He also was assuring me the Chabad is very liberal, easy-going and accepting.  I was like, I think you are getting carried away with how liberal you believe the Chabad to be.  This seems to be the mentality of him and the other snotty liberal college brats who populate this Chabad.  He then starts getting into a rant with his other college friends about how bad Christians are to gay people.   Keeping my mouth shut, I was thinking to myself, have you ever read what the Torah says about homosexuality, you idiot?

Now, to go bit deeper and explode on another tangent:
I have had no luck with any synagogue here in the USA.. Is Israel better??  Considering, how Westernized Israel is, I really doubt it.  I hear even most Mizarchi/Sefardi in Israel follow American Jewish culture, for most part.  Israel, supposedly is even more liberal than USA, as a country and is totally socialist/european in government.

I am actually considering just leaving "Modern/Western" Judaism and going my own way in life, giving up on the Jewish community altogether.  Afterall, we sell off our holy sites and let our women dress like sluts in our shuls and don't mind goyim coming without covering their heads in our holy places.  I am thinking modern Judaism is just a social gathering where people look for business partners or look for place to boast about their riches or family life.

As a religion, I feel we have become lost..  We have more or less let the goyim rule over our hearts and have dismissed the glory and power of Hashem.  We have submitted to the European and Islamic masters and now serve their demands and desires, not our own.    Until , we restore our ancient traditional minhag and zeal for glory, we will always be a suffering pathetic people.  We are much quicker to jab a knife into one of our own people to silence them for hurting our pride or insulting the feelings of our so-called friend then to unite and work together to overcome the great evil that seeks our destruction.

I am actually planning a trip to Yemen to find the long lost traditional Yemenite Jews who live there, because I feel if I fail, then I die and leave this wretched earth and if I succeed I can find the last remnant of real, traditional ancient Rambam-style Judaism left in this world.

G-d Save the Fools and Traitors who sell off their holy places to their enemies.   

There is no Aliyah to be made now, Israel is now in the hand of the Crusaders, we just fool ourselves thinking we own the land, when we are just , in fact, caretakers.   How and when have we become so lost in our ways and felt the desire to serve the evils of the world and its Avodah Zarah rather than to serve heaven and Hashem.




Title: Re: Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over
Post by: Kahane-Was-Right BT on May 18, 2014, 12:10:49 PM
A non-Jew doesn't have to wear a kippa.
Title: Re: Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over
Post by: Every Jew AK47 on May 18, 2014, 07:18:45 PM
A non-Jew doesn't have to wear a kippa.

Thanks for letting me know.  I've never attended a shul where I saw a man not wearing a kippa, so it was a shock for Mr to see it.  I thought all me had to be covered out of respect for Hashem when entering the shul.
Title: Re: Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over
Post by: Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks on May 18, 2014, 07:49:49 PM
If BerGOGlio is Gog, this action makes perfect sense.
Title: Re: Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over
Post by: Ephraim Ben Noach on May 18, 2014, 08:37:46 PM
I've decided I am going to leave this very LIBERAL college Chabad.  I cannot deal with all the spoiled brat college pukes who attend there and the rabbi who just overlooks all the offenses that are being committed at this shul.  It's sad this place had to bear the "Chabad logo".   They invited two goyim to attend the synagogue.  I don't exactly know the rules.  However, one of the non-Jewish guys was not wearing a kippa and I told him he needs to put on a kippa when he is in a synagogue.    His idiot friend then tells him to take it off and that he doesn't need to wear it..  Was I in the wrong?  As far as I know in any Orthodox synagogue, you are suppose to wear a kippa.  Does being next to a college campus mean you no longer have to follow halacha to appease the liberal college kids who attend your shul?

The people there treat me like I am some type of crazed religious psycho.  It appears to be more of a cool, hip college hangout than a holy and righteous place of G-d.  BTW, they supposedlky welcome everybody so should not be treating non-college people with contempt, like they do.  I just about knocked out this one snotty rich kid who started bitching at me for consuming kosher protein powder while I was at the synagogue.  This was after the moron told me he eats pork and shellfish and that it is no big deal.  I am like why are you b*tching at me for consuming kosher protein powder, when you admit you break some of the most important rules of kashrut and have no shame, eating pork and shellfish.     Then the guy starts mocking me for liking Israeli music and asks me what Mizrachi music or Mizrachi Jews are??  I am thinking to myself, do you know anything about Jews, besides the ones you grew up with in your liberal Amercian synagouge in the most wealthy city of the metro area???   He starts just laughing cause he deems me not cool as him and his spoiled bratty college friends.  He also was assuring me the Chabad is very liberal, easy-going and accepting.  I was like, I think you are getting carried away with how liberal you believe the Chabad to be.  This seems to be the mentality of him and the other snotty liberal college brats who populate this Chabad.  He then starts getting into a rant with his other college friends about how bad Christians are to gay people.   Keeping my mouth shut, I was thinking to myself, have you ever read what the Torah says about homosexuality, you idiot?

Now, to go bit deeper and explode on another tangent:
I have had no luck with any synagogue here in the USA.. Is Israel better??  Considering, how Westernized Israel is, I really doubt it.  I hear even most Mizarchi/Sefardi in Israel follow American Jewish culture, for most part.  Israel, supposedly is even more liberal than USA, as a country and is totally socialist/european in government.

I am actually considering just leaving "Modern/Western" Judaism and going my own way in life, giving up on the Jewish community altogether.  Afterall, we sell off our holy sites and let our women dress like sluts in our shuls and don't mind goyim coming without covering their heads in our holy places.  I am thinking modern Judaism is just a social gathering where people look for business partners or look for place to boast about their riches or family life.

As a religion, I feel we have become lost..  We have more or less let the goyim rule over our hearts and have dismissed the glory and power of Hashem.  We have submitted to the European and Islamic masters and now serve their demands and desires, not our own.    Until , we restore our ancient traditional minhag and zeal for glory, we will always be a suffering pathetic people.  We are much quicker to jab a knife into one of our own people to silence them for hurting our pride or insulting the feelings of our so-called friend then to unite and work together to overcome the great evil that seeks our destruction.

I am actually planning a trip to Yemen to find the long lost traditional Yemenite Jews who live there, because I feel if I fail, then I die and leave this wretched earth and if I succeed I can find the last remnant of real, traditional ancient Rambam-style Judaism left in this world.

G-d Save the Fools and Traitors who sell off their holy places to their enemies.   

There is no Aliyah to be made now, Israel is now in the hand of the Crusaders, we just fool ourselves thinking we own the land, when we are just , in fact, caretakers.   How and when have we become so lost in our ways and felt the desire to serve the evils of the world and its Avodah Zarah rather than to serve heaven and Hashem.
That was really funny, but  I have a bone to pick with you... You were complaining about how your Chabad wasn't Orthodox enough, but you're on the Computer on Shabbat?
Title: Re: Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over
Post by: Every Jew AK47 on May 18, 2014, 10:55:53 PM
That was really funny, but  I have a bone to pick with you... You were complaining about how your Chabad wasn't Orthodox enough, but you're on the Computer on Shabbat?

Check all my post dates and please tell me which one of them were done on Shabbat.  Remember I live in west coast USA.  Unless you believe Saturday evening when I made that last post still counts as Shabbat? 

BTW, I am not orthodox or claim to be.  However, I expect those who claim to be Orthodox and Shomer people to be what they claim.  Just as you challenged me by assuming I posted on shabbat, albeit wrongly.

I am the lowest of all Jews on earth and when I am corpse nobody will miss me.  Just one less poor like in the world.  Don't worry about trying to prove how shomer I am, as I will fail miserably.  You and everyone else here are better Jews than me.  Jews in general think they are better than everyone else.  We are arrogant people and we are suffering for it.  Go ahead and pick your bone with me, heck why don't ya just shoot me and put me out of my misery.  Kol tuv lecha.
Title: Re: Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over
Post by: Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks on May 19, 2014, 01:39:20 AM
I may be in the minority here but I don't think it's wrong in and of itself to be a fan of Harry Potter. A lot of conservative Christian kids are big HP or Lord of the Rings nerds.
Title: Re: Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over
Post by: Israel Chai on May 19, 2014, 05:49:01 AM
Check all my post dates and please tell me which one of them were done on Shabbat.  Remember I live in west coast USA.  Unless you believe Saturday evening when I made that last post still counts as Shabbat? 

BTW, I am not orthodox or claim to be.  However, I expect those who claim to be Orthodox and Shomer people to be what they claim.  Just as you challenged me by assuming I posted on shabbat, albeit wrongly.

I am the lowest of all Jews on earth and when I am corpse nobody will miss me.  Just one less poor like in the world.  Don't worry about trying to prove how shomer I am, as I will fail miserably.  You and everyone else here are better Jews than me.  Jews in general think they are better than everyone else.  We are arrogant people and we are suffering for it.  Go ahead and pick your bone with me, heck why don't ya just shoot me and put me out of my misery.  Kol tuv lecha.

Yeah he's not Jewish. And don't worry dude, however bad you think you are, I'm worse, and however miserable you think you are, I literally put people into depression with my stories. Don't speak lashon hara about your people though. If you want to be a tzadik and earn the merit to become one, before even shabbat or kosher food, you have to love Am Yisrael, and since we're all being judged and treated as one, no matter your situation or your sins, you have to start with loving yourself and being thankful that Hashem gave you the opportunity to suffer here in the world of lies so you can correct your midot and pay for your sins, and if you could only see what a great gift that this life of pain is and be thankful for what Hashem does to you, we will be well on our way to merit Olam Haba.
Title: Re: Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over
Post by: Every Jew AK47 on May 19, 2014, 06:26:14 AM
Yeah he's not Jewish. And don't worry dude, however bad you think you are, I'm worse, and however miserable you think you are, I literally put people into depression with my stories. Don't speak lashon hara about your people though. If you want to be a tzadik and earn the merit to become one, before even shabbat or kosher food, you have to love Am Yisrael, and since we're all being judged and treated as one, no matter your situation or your sins, you have to start with loving yourself and being thankful that Hashem gave you the opportunity to suffer here in the world of lies so you can correct your midot and pay for your sins, and if you could only see what a great gift that this life of pain is and be thankful for what Hashem does to you, we will be well on our way to merit Olam Haba.

LKZ, you say some wonderful and inspiring things here..  Maybe, I am just depressed, fed up, exhausted..   I don't know anymore, maybe i Just have given up on life..  I apologize for speaking lashon hara to my fellow Jews.. I guess being with them, I didn't feel they were truly, my "fellow Jews".  Nobody there liked me or really wanted to acknowledge my presence.. At most synagogues I am just ignored and dismissed as a poor, old , loser.   I have no money, unmarried at 36 and I didn't grow up in any prestigious or religious Jewish family.  I feel I am more or less useless in any western synagogue, especially in the USA.  I am more respected, appreciated and treated better by gentiles here than by my own Jews.  I ended up living with gentiles, because my own Jewish people felt I was useless to them. 

Maybe, after I do a trip to the Middle East and seek out long lost Jewish communities who can accept me, I can become a more learned and more traditional Jew..  I am planning on removing my western attire and starting to wear Yemenite attire.  I don't feel I should be wearing black during Shabbat anymore, but rather be dawning white garments.  I am a liberated man, not a man confined in the shtetl any longer.  Not that I hate shtetl life, it had many great aspects.   In our poverty and suffering in Europe, we were more humble , kind and devout people.    However, I don't want to be imprisoned any longer by Western culture.  I respect its goodness, but know as a Middle Eastern man, it is not my own culture.   Modern European Israeli culture doesn't count as traditional Judaic Middle Eastern culture in my eyes either.

I'm thinking in a year I will start my trip to Morocco , Tunisia and then Yemen.  If I survive in Yemen and succeed and finding Jewish community , my next stop will be Yerushalayim.   My friend David, who went to Yemen and visited the Jewish communities there, also said that Yemenite Jews still perform traditional shidduch and don't have huge income requirements like Ashkenazi/American Sefardi do.   I would like to marry a virgin girl, as I am a virgin myself..   I would like a traditional Yemenite Jewish marriage.


FYI, I never condemn a Jew for not keeping kosher or falling short of being perfect in halacha..  What irritated me was how proud this guy was about how he didn't keep kosher and how he starts yelling at me for contaminating the synagogue when he saw me take some kosher protein powder, because I needed it.  I do intense weightlifting and fitness and I cannot go 4 hours after workout without it.  The guy starts b*tching at me and yelling at me. I said, you proudly eat pig and shellfish and don't give a damn and you have chutzpah to chew me out over something that is kosher?  Check yourself first..

The guy went on to mock me for liking Israeli music and him and his little snotty, spoiled college friends were laughing at me like I was some old fool because I was talkign about Israeli songs I liked and didn't listen to all the new age cheesy crap that he and his skanky female friends listened to.  I was not insulting or mocking him at all, but he had the nerve to snicker at me and insult me.  He also was getting pissed at me for discussing anything religious.  Then going around promoting how Judaism accepts homosexuality right int he Chabad was really getting on my nerves.

I'm just sick at how liberal and watered down the Chabad is becoming where I live.  It seems most synagogues here the mitzvot performed or more just formality, once they are done with tefillot the people are back to talking about more important things.


BTW.. A few other questions, some of you who are more learned in Halacha can answer for me in regards to my comments about Jewish women/girls I see at the Kehillot:
1. What is the point of women wearing a scheitel for the sake of Tzniut, when they dawn a sexy, tight mini skirt that shows their hot round buttocks and sexy legs..  I mean, isn't the whole point of a scheitel for the sake of Tzniut, which are the mitzvot of modesty?   Some of the Chabad ladies wear just the most sexy outfits that will make any hormone-laden man ooze, trust me!!  I just don't get it..  Wouldn't it be more appropriate according to Tzniut for the woman to wear a less revealing dress rather than a wig??? 
2. Why is a wig considered fulfilling to Tzniut, when it looks like a real hair and arouses men and still gives the woman a look of sexual appeal.  WOuldn't a tichel or head covering be more appropriate for Tzniut?  Before the Sefardim/Mizrachi became Westernized and adopted Ashkenazi minhag, I hear they shunned the scheitel and would only have women wear tichel  or gargush/karkosh (Yemenite Jews).
3.  Does Torah prohibit women from wearing man-like clothing? Many women at the Chabads I have attended wear very tight, sexy looking jeans that show their round butts.   Not only is it sexually arousing to men, but the jeans are clothing that have been generations worn as male work clothing and have a somewhat masculine appearance, although most women wear them because they show body shape and are easy to wear.    I have read that Orthodox Jews, from all sides, Ashkenazi/Mizrachi forbid women wearing jeans, especially in the synagogue.  Any comments here? 


Title: Re: Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over
Post by: Israel Chai on May 19, 2014, 01:05:48 PM
Yeah I know the feeling. Well actually, I literally don't have any happy time in my life to look at, so I don't know another feeling. If you were here in this world to enjoy life, you would be a monkey, so be happy that Hashem is giving you this suffering, because every second that you accept and are thankful for is endless rewards in the world to come. Considering rich and married people often are the most depressed, it never gets easier. If you stay loyal after everything you think you want doesn't come to you, it shows you can be trusted with infinitely more than what this world has to offer.

If you eulogize one of these Jews and start saying "he had lots of money, made so much, always looked very youthful and pretty, he took very good care of himself and spent a lot of time on it, and he had a bunch of friends, and hung out with everyone", they're going to boo you, and ask to hear things like charity and how good of a man he was inside, because everyone really know that's all fake. If they're faulting you for that, then B"H Hashem is not punishing you with friends like that.

Also, I'm pretty sure everyone is supposed to wear white on Shabbat to be like the angels. Also, I very strongly recommend you do not go to muslim countries. Without serious money there, it's extremely dangerous, and nevermind that muslim culture is barbaric and treats women like animals. You want hardcore Jews that don't worship vanity, move to the villages in the hilltop communities, and we'll be doing the ASK on you. Don't want to offend, but I'd be moving there and doing more than just sitting around if I was 36 and unmarried, and even at my age, I'm already considering things I can't say, that will at least bring some good out of this life.

And liberal Jews hate me too. They're allergic almost. That's fine by me. Most of the goyim I was friends with when I was younger sell crack or want to party... in a not good way for me, so I can't really hang out with them, and as a result I don't really talk to anyone outside of making money and this site. Lol the Jewish friends I made don't like me now either because I would go along with a stupid and harmful lie to their mother. That's to be expected. Anyone alive right now is a looser that failed before and is getting a last chance to save themselves from their punishment. I told a bus full of liberal Jews that we should kill gays, and then debated them all while they hated me more and more, because really, if they're going to hate you, might as well be fighting the good fight instead of about yourself. Who cares what they think about you anyways. If they think faggets are good, their sense of anything is to be ignored.

For your three questions, of course of course of course. People want to pretend they're righteous, so they do one religious thing to hide the fact that they dress like whores. It's common to see phony people today. Don't pay any attention, and look at the ground when they're dressed like that, even when you talk to them, because it's a major sin, and it goes to the girl's account too, but Rabbi Mizrachi says "she murdered you" by dressing that way, so it's damaging you too. As for wigs, they're allowed, but the reality will shock you. In Talmud, there's a story of a girl who make a wig out of straw. The Rabbis call her a whore, because it's too long. That should indicate what Judaism thinks about the hair some Indian girl sacrificed to her idol and was sold in Italy. Obviously, it's not modest at all, probably even less modest than their original hair. For the pants, personally I wouldn't be seen dead in girl jeans, so my opinion is that jeans for girls are allowed, but my opinion is worthless, and basically any Rabbi I can name will say they must wear a dress.

LKZ, you say some wonderful and inspiring things here..  Maybe, I am just depressed, fed up, exhausted..   I don't know anymore, maybe i Just have given up on life..  I apologize for speaking lashon hara to my fellow Jews.. I guess being with them, I didn't feel they were truly, my "fellow Jews".  Nobody there liked me or really wanted to acknowledge my presence.. At most synagogues I am just ignored and dismissed as a poor, old , loser.   I have no money, unmarried at 36 and I didn't grow up in any prestigious or religious Jewish family.  I feel I am more or less useless in any western synagogue, especially in the USA.  I am more respected, appreciated and treated better by gentiles here than by my own Jews.  I ended up living with gentiles, because my own Jewish people felt I was useless to them. 

Maybe, after I do a trip to the Middle East and seek out long lost Jewish communities who can accept me, I can become a more learned and more traditional Jew..  I am planning on removing my western attire and starting to wear Yemenite attire.  I don't feel I should be wearing black during Shabbat anymore, but rather be dawning white garments.  I am a liberated man, not a man confined in the shtetl any longer.  Not that I hate shtetl life, it had many great aspects.   In our poverty and suffering in Europe, we were more humble , kind and devout people.    However, I don't want to be imprisoned any longer by Western culture.  I respect its goodness, but know as a Middle Eastern man, it is not my own culture.   Modern European Israeli culture doesn't count as traditional Judaic Middle Eastern culture in my eyes either.

I'm thinking in a year I will start my trip to Morocco , Tunisia and then Yemen.  If I survive in Yemen and succeed and finding Jewish community , my next stop will be Yerushalayim.   My friend David, who went to Yemen and visited the Jewish communities there, also said that Yemenite Jews still perform traditional shidduch and don't have huge income requirements like Ashkenazi/American Sefardi do.   I would like to marry a virgin girl, as I am a virgin myself..   I would like a traditional Yemenite Jewish marriage.


FYI, I never condemn a Jew for not keeping kosher or falling short of being perfect in halacha..  What irritated me was how proud this guy was about how he didn't keep kosher and how he starts yelling at me for contaminating the synagogue when he saw me take some kosher protein powder, because I needed it.  I do intense weightlifting and fitness and I cannot go 4 hours after workout without it.  The guy starts b*tching at me and yelling at me. I said, you proudly eat pig and shellfish and don't give a damn and you have chutzpah to chew me out over something that is kosher?  Check yourself first..

The guy went on to mock me for liking Israeli music and him and his little snotty, spoiled college friends were laughing at me like I was some old fool because I was talkign about Israeli songs I liked and didn't listen to all the new age cheesy crap that he and his skanky female friends listened to.  I was not insulting or mocking him at all, but he had the nerve to snicker at me and insult me.  He also was getting pissed at me for discussing anything religious.  Then going around promoting how Judaism accepts homosexuality right int he Chabad was really getting on my nerves.

I'm just sick at how liberal and watered down the Chabad is becoming where I live.  It seems most synagogues here the mitzvot performed or more just formality, once they are done with tefillot the people are back to talking about more important things.


BTW.. A few other questions, some of you who are more learned in Halacha can answer for me in regards to my comments about Jewish women/girls I see at the Kehillot:
1. What is the point of women wearing a scheitel for the sake of Tzniut, when they dawn a sexy, tight mini skirt that shows their hot round buttocks and sexy legs..  I mean, isn't the whole point of a scheitel for the sake of Tzniut, which are the mitzvot of modesty?   Some of the Chabad ladies wear just the most sexy outfits that will make any hormone-laden man ooze, trust me!!  I just don't get it..  Wouldn't it be more appropriate according to Tzniut for the woman to wear a less revealing dress rather than a wig??? 
2. Why is a wig considered fulfilling to Tzniut, when it looks like a real hair and arouses men and still gives the woman a look of sexual appeal.  WOuldn't a tichel or head covering be more appropriate for Tzniut?  Before the Sefardim/Mizrachi became Westernized and adopted Ashkenazi minhag, I hear they shunned the scheitel and would only have women wear tichel  or gargush/karkosh (Yemenite Jews).
3.  Does Torah prohibit women from wearing man-like clothing? Many women at the Chabads I have attended wear very tight, sexy looking jeans that show their round butts.   Not only is it sexually arousing to men, but the jeans are clothing that have been generations worn as male work clothing and have a somewhat masculine appearance, although most women wear them because they show body shape and are easy to wear.    I have read that Orthodox Jews, from all sides, Ashkenazi/Mizrachi forbid women wearing jeans, especially in the synagogue.  Any comments here?
Title: Re: Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over
Post by: kyel on May 19, 2014, 01:51:43 PM
Go to Morocco I could understand but Yemen? Do you know arabic? Yemen is very unsafe...
Title: Re: Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over
Post by: muman613 on May 19, 2014, 03:55:13 PM
EJA44,

This thread has really drifted 'off-topic' but I think it is important to address some of your concerns.

A Jew is not perfect, we never were intended to be perfect, and despite our imperfection Hashem still loves us and walks with us. Judaism is not a contest of 'holier than though' attitudes either. Some of your comments seem to draw comparisons between what you believe Judaism is supposed to be, and the failings of those you observe from attaining those lofty goals. We are commanded to be the best we can be, a slogan the US Army molded into 'BE ALL YOU CAN BE' which is a goal we all should try to attain. Hashem does not ask more from us than we can acheive, he gives us all we need to acheive our personal and national missions and it is up to us to make use of our G-d given talents to change the world in a positive way.

One of the main concepts of Judaism is caring for our fellow Jews, no matter how far or close they are to Hashem. Hashem says in the Torah to love our enemies (of course not physical enemies who want to kill us) and to not bear a grudge against them, we are to honestly and lovingly rebuke them in the attempt to return them to the correct path. We should not give rebuke which pushes a person farther from Hashem though, which is one reason rebuke is such a difficult commandment.

There are all kinds of bad issues within the Jewish communities, both the religious and irreligious. This is a fact of life and the Torah recognizes this. Only Hashsem knows what is truly in the hearts of men. Is a person pious or is he a sinner? We can only guess what the calculation Hashem uses to determine these issues.

My advice is always to work on yourself first, make yourself strong in your faith, make your mitzvot important to your lifestyle. Your making the mitzvot important to your life will have added effects on those who are around you. Work on your character traits in a way which makes you more dear to your fellow Jew, concentrate on the traits of compassion and mercy (two of the most revered traits of Hashem) and do not worry about stoning homosexuals. The laws concerning forbidden relationships is not as important as making yourself strong, and influencing others around you.

You should want to give money to your community, you should want to better the Jewish people around you. They are your family. It was this which led me to Teshuva, when a black Christian neighbor said 'Go back to your people'. The Jewish people are MY people, and they should be your people too.

I love all Jews, whether they put on Tefillin, say Shema, light candles, or not... Every Jew who was born Jewish has a portion in the world to come, and we should want to help them back on the path to listening to Hashems voice. We should feel personal responsibility when we see fellow Jews acting in a shameful way.

We should not try to shame them, embarass them, or hate them. We should think about what we can do to gently nudge them in the right direction and we will gain merit for every Jew we help.

I do not think it is a panacea (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/panacea) to believe that joining a Yemenite community will solve all your problems. That is called idealism and usually a person is disappointed when they find out that the other community suffers almost the same problems as the community which you left. Always believing it is better in some other community leads many to depression.

Do not seek a community which is evil, but judge each one for the good. This is another Jewish concept, the benefit of the doubt... We should not assume that a person who is sinning is an evil person, he or she is just acting foolishly and will some day realize his or her sin....

I would like to help more but I think this thread is not the correct place.... Maybe we can talk in the Torah section about these topics.
Title: Re: Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over
Post by: muman613 on May 19, 2014, 03:59:15 PM
http://www.torah.org/learning/pirkei-avos/chapter1-6b.html

G-d's Justice System
Chapter 1, Mishna 6(b)
By Rabbi Dovid Rosenfeld

"Yehoshua ben (son of) Perachia and Nittai of Arbel received the transmission from them [the rabbis of Mishna 4]. Yehoshua ben Perachia said: Make for yourself a rabbi, acquire for yourself a friend, and judge every person favorably."

Last week we discussed the first two statements of the mishna, the importance of acquiring both a rabbi and a friend. As we explained, personal relationships with both role models and equals are crucial for proper intellectual and spiritual growth -- for taking the Torah's messages, bringing them to life, and applying them to real-life situations.

This week we'll discuss the final statement of the mishna -- judging others favorably. As an opening observation, this perhaps relates to the mishna's first two statements. Only one who can overlook his friend's (and even his teacher's) faults while learning from his positive traits will be able to develop positive and growing relationships. There is no such thing as a person you will look up to in every way. Only with generous doses of patience and forbearance can any meaningful relationship get off the ground.

The Talmud derives the principle of judging others favorably from a verse in Leviticus (19:15): "In righteousness shall you judge your fellow" (Shavuos 30a). In its literal sense, the verse is addressing judges. The Sages derive from this the importance of being fair and impartial to both litigants, not giving better treatment to either one during the court proceedings.

The Talmud, however, additionally sees this verse as a general directive to us all, that we "judge" our fellows favorably. For better or worse, we are constantly judging our peers based on their words and behavior, and often our verdicts are as harsh and condemning as those of the most rigid of judges. We are thus told to give others the benefit of the doubt, sometimes to bend over to see the good in our fellow where it is anything but readily evident. Perhaps he went into the MacDonald's to use the phone or bathroom. He acted that way because he had a rough day at work, or he is just not as sensitive about a certain issue as I.

Maimonides, in his commentary to the mishna, provides more precise guidelines for this obligation. There are three categories of people. An average person, who is neither particularly pious nor sinful (or at least is not known to you to be neglectful in the matter under question), must be given the benefit of the doubt only in situations in which there is reasonable room for doubt. If an act could go either way, judge him favorably. If, however, an act leaves little room for doubt -- and the person is not exactly known for his saintliness -- one need not find some farfetched favorable interpretation to his act. The Torah does not ask for naivete, that we ignore what is in front of our noses. (Blabbing out what you saw to all who will hear, however, is known as lashon hara, evil speech, and is an entirely separate (and rather severe) transgression.) However, it is meritorious to look for some favorable or extenuating factor even in such a case.

The second type of person is one known to be righteous. Maimonides writes that we must view him or her favorably even if the circumstances do not warrant it, even in the case where his behavior appears sinful. We should bend over to view such a person favorably. Even if he clearly did sin, the Talmud writes that one should assume he reconsidered and repented his deed by the morrow (Brachos 19a). (Needless to say, if his "sinful" behavior involves financial loss to others we do not just cheerily dismiss his behavior as somehow acceptable; we notify the appropriate authorities and let *them* decide. Our mishna's focus is on the courtrooms of the mind alone.)

The final category of person is one known to be wicked. In this context, we define wicked as one who publicly and unashamedly flaunts his religion, and does not do so out of an ignorance of the true depth and beauty of Judaism. (As contemporary rabbis observe, it is actually difficult to find a person who fits the build today. Apart from the almost universal ignorance of Judaism as a whole today (whether or not someone has heard there are Orthodox Jews with long beards and coats in New York somewhere), a person today could have easily been raised to an Orthodox family and in an observant neighborhood -- and somehow never truly grew into what Judaism is all about. And there may not have been anyone there to properly guide and inspire him during some of the crucial early stages of his life. You cannot really pick up meaning and spirituality from your environment. It does not just seep in. We must each discover it for ourselves -- no matter who our parents and our teachers were or are.)

Regarding such a person, there is no obligation whatsoever to judge him favorably. He is not "your fellow" as referred to in the verse. In fact, we must rather bend over the other way in condemning his actions. We must always be wary that he is trying to create a respectable image so as to avert suspicion from his behavior -- and to entice others to his wicked ways.

The Talmud teaches us further: "Anyone who judges others favorably will be judged favorably in Heaven" (Shabbos 127b). This follows the general principle that G-d rewards and punishes us "measure for measure" (Mishna Sotah 1:7). If we are patient and understanding with others, G-d will act in the same manner towards us. If not, G-d will get his cues, so to speak, from our own behavior. Sadly, G-d's method of judgment is only too just.

However, this presents a difficulty. When we judge others favorably, aren't we giving the benefit of the doubt because we *don't* know all the facts? We saw him walk into a MacDonald's and we don't know what happened next. Perhaps he went in for a soda. He was not in synagogue on Yom Kippur. Perhaps he wasn't feeling well. He made an inconsiderate remark. Perhaps he doesn't know how sensitive that issue is to me, perhaps his boss just yelled at him, etc. But G-d *does* know all the facts; there is no room for doubt. He knows the circumstances, the background, and all that preceded and followed. How can G-d judge us favorably when it involves overlooking what to Him are clear, hard facts?

The answer is that giving the benefit of the doubt is not only a matter of overlooking or interpreting details. It stems from an attitude. When we judge others, we are setting our own personal justice system. If I am constantly finding fault and criticizing others, I send a message to G-d. Shortcomings should be noticed and highlighted; there's no room for mercy and tolerance. And G-d allows us to fashion the very justice system with which He views us. If we see only the bad in others, we bring upon ourselves the very judgment which we, in our minds, visit upon others daily.

If, however, we view others favorably, we send an entirely different message to G-d. I know Joe is basically a good guy. He means well. Therefore, it is not likely to me that he actually did something wrong. And if he did, it is probably because he didn't really know better or he finds such behavior more challenging than I.

When we view others in such a manner, it sends a different message to G-d. I know Your creations are good human beings. They stumble and fall at times, but I have not lost faith in them as a result. They mean well, and I'm sure they'll pick themselves up again and try harder. And this is the attitude we should only wish G-d would have towards us. He (more than anyone else in creation) knows that human beings are basically good creatures. We have good souls and active consciences. If we recognize the innate goodness in others, chances are we will see it in ourselves equally well. And G-d will as well judge us mercifully. He knows we are His faithful servants regardless of our many slips and falls. We'll bounce back -- G-d knows we can do it -- and He knows as well that we can recognize this ourselves. And if He has that trust in us, we might just live up to His expectations.
Title: Re: Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over
Post by: muman613 on May 19, 2014, 04:24:59 PM
I will add this description and commentary of the famous 'Hillel & Shammai' question of 'love your fellow'...

http://www.sichosinenglish.org/books/ahavas-yisroel/08.htm



To Love A Fellow Jew
The Mitzvah of Ahavas Yisrael in Chassidic Thought
Chapter 7
Hillel And Rabbi Akiva


The Torah on One Foot

The Talmud in tractate Shabbos 31a relates the following well-known story of Hillel:

"On another occasion it happened that a certain heathen came before Shammai and said to him, "Make me a proselyte, on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot."[1] Thereupon he chased him away with the builder's cubit that was in his hand.[2] When he came before Hillel, (he also asked Hillel to teach him the entire Torah while standing on one foot) Hillel replied, "What is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor: that is the whole Torah while the rest is commentary; go and learn it."[3]

While it is clearly suggested in the Talmud that ahavas Yisrael is the entire Torah and the rest is commentary, this statement of Hillel requires clarification.

It is well known that the 613 Commandments may broadly be divided into two categories: between man and G-d, and between man and man. The mitzvah of ahavas Yisrael is obviously fundamental in the realm of mitzvos between man and man; however, how can it be suggested that it is the entire Torah - that it also applies to mitzvos between man and G-d?

The Great Principle

On the verse, "Love your fellow as yourself," the classic commentator Rashi quotes from Toras Kohanim, an early Midrashic text regarding the famous dictum of Rabbi Akiva: "Love your fellow as yourself - Rabbi Akiva says this is a great principle of the Torah."[4]

It is well known that Rabbi Akiva lived many years after Hillel. One may therefore ask: If Hillel has already stated that ahavas Yisrael is the entire Torah and the rest of the Torah is just commentary, what has Rabbi Akiva added in his statement by saying that ahavas Yisrael is a "great principle" of the Torah? Surely this idea is already included in the words of Hillel.[5]

Bring Them Near to the Torah

We will answer the above questions by first introducing another famous saying of Hillel.[6]

"Hillel said: Be of the disciples of Aharon, loving peace and pursuing peace, loving your fellow creatures, and bringing them near to the Torah."

One may ask, what is the connection between "loving your fellow creatures" and "bringing them near to the Torah"? The mitzvah of ahavas Yisrael tells us to show concern for another in all matters both material and spiritual. The Baal Shem Tov taught that one must look to do a favor for another without making it conditional on spiritual achievement or circumstance.[7] Why then does the mishnah make this connection?

One way of explaining it is to say that the mishnah is giving a directive as to the boundaries of ahavas Yisrael: fulfilling the mitzvah of ahavas Yisrael should never be an excuse to "dilute" the words or ways of the Torah to the ways of the people, rather the opposite: one must draw the people nearer to the ways of the Torah.[8]

According to this explanation, however, the words "and bring them near to the Torah" are peripheral to the concept of ahavas Yisrael, explaining only the parameters of ahavas Yisrael. The plain meaning of the mishnah instead implies that "bringing them near to the Torah" is not merely tangential but rather a direct consequence of "loving your fellow creatures," i.e., ahavas Yisrael reflects itself and is demonstrated in "bringing them near to the Torah."[9]

The question is made even stronger with the explanation in chapter 32 of Tanya which states that ahavas Yisrael must be in a way of realizing that the other Jew possesses a soul which, in its source, is one with all other souls, which explains why ahavas Yisrael has no limits and applies to the great as well as the small - and as the Mezritcher Maggid says[10] - one must love the perfectly wicked just as the perfectly righteous. If ahavas Yisrael must be independent of the Jew's standing in his G-dly service, why then does the mishnah state that ahavas Yisrael must manifest itself in "bringing them near to the Torah"?

First in Thought

The explanation:

There is a well-known saying of the Sages:[11] "The thought of Israel preceded any other." This means that when G-d created the world, Israel preceded Torah in His thought.

On the other hand, the Zohar[12] teaches: "Israel connects with the Torah, and the Torah connects with G-d," which seems to suggest that Torah precedes Israel.

Chassidic philosophy[13] explains: In their source, Israel stands higher than the Torah. However, as souls descend below, Torah is higher than Israel, and the connection of a soul to G-d is through Torah.

This explanation elucidates the two opposites in a Jew:

1) Since in his source a Jew stands higher than Torah; therefore, "A Jew even though he has sinned is still called a Jew."[14] No number of sins can rid the Jew of the title "Jew," because the connection of the Jew's essence with G-d is not dependent upon his observance of Torah and mitzvos.[15]

2) It is this very essential connection that brings every Jew ultimately to do teshuvah,[16] and since the connection of a soul with G-d is through the Torah (once the soul descends into a body), eventually the essential connection will bring every Jew to keep the Torah and mitzvos.[17]
Opposites Reflected

These two opposites reflect themselves in the Mitzvah of Ahavas Yisrael.

The essence of ahavas Yisrael is the love for the soul as it stands in its source united with all other souls, and as it stands above Torah. That essential love therefore transcends Torah observance and extends itself even to those who are distant from the Torah. On this level, there is no differentiation between a tzaddik and a rasha. Furthermore, the love is not limited to the spirituality of the other Jew but even extends to his material requirements, for even his material requirements are those of a Jew (as we view the soul in its essential state.)

However, since the connection of the soul with G-d - as it descends below - is through Torah, therefore ahavas Yisrael becomes a mitzvah of the Torah, (i.e., we must love a fellow Jew as an imperative of the Torah[18]). The mitzvah then contains within it all the limitations that the Torah places upon us; for example, the idea mentioned above not to "dilute" the Torah to make it more accessible.

We can now understand the teaching of Hillel: "Love your fellow creatures and bring them near to the Torah." Although one must have ahavas Yisrael independent of any standing or levels of observance (because of the essence and source of the soul as explained above); nevertheless, once the soul descends below, its connection to G-d is through the Torah. Therefore, one cannot suffice with ahavas Yisrael from the sole perspective of the soul's essence, but should try to bring one's fellow Jew to a full connection with G-d through the Torah, which recognizes his soul's connection here below.

A true sense of unity will only be felt if all Jews connect themselves with G-d through the Torah. If a Jew remains "distant from the Torah," one must still love him because of his essence, his essence being higher than the Torah; however, true ahavas Yisrael will bring him to a full connection with G-d, and that is accomplished by drawing him near to the Torah. Once a Jew has a connection with G-d through the Torah, his essential bond with G-d can be fully revealed.

The Difference Between Hillel and Rabbi Akiva

We will now understand the difference between the sayings of Hillel and Rabbi Akiva.

Rabbi Akiva was talking about the mitzvah of ahavas Yisrael that must be observed by a Jew in a body, i.e., with all the limitations and directions of the Torah. Therefore, he cannot state that ahavas Yisrael is the entire Torah for if so, it could override other rules of the Torah (just as saving a life can override all other rules) and as previously mentioned that is not the case. On the level of Torah, ahavas Yisrael is only a "great principle of the Torah" - a principle which must be carried out under the directives of the Torah.

Hillel, however, was talking about the essential level of ahavas Yisrael, where the Jew stands higher than Torah. On that level, the whole purpose of the Torah is as a means to reveal the essence of the Jew. Since a Jew's essence is revealed by the mitzvah of ahavas Yisrael, it can therefore be said that it is the entire Torah and the rest is explanation; that is, that the rest of the Torah is the vehicle through which the essence of the Jew is revealed as exemplified in the mitzvah of ahavas Yisrael.

(Adapted from Likkutei Sichos, Vol. 17, pp. 215-224)

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Quotes

From the teachings of the Baal Shem Tov: one cannot estimate the amazing power of Ahavas Yisrael. Friends who together arouse heavenly mercy for another friend in distress have the power to tear up a 70-year heavenly decree. They can turn a curse into a blessing and death into long life.

(Sefer HaToldos of the Previous Rebbe, Vol. 1, p. 131)

Ahavas Yisrael was the primary "Avodah" of the disciples of the Baal Shem Tov. Each of the disciples had to acquire for himself a good friend. The Baal Shem Tov trained even the simple Jews to have Ahavas Yisrael - always to look upon another only with a favorable eye.

(Igros Kodesh of the Previous Rebbe, Vol. 3, p. 269)

So, too, in matters affecting a person's relations with his fellow, as soon as there rises from his heart to his mind any animosity or hatred, G-d forbid, or jealousy, anger, or a grudge and the like, he allows them no entrance into his mind and will. On the contrary, his mind exercises its authority and power over the feelings in his heart to do the very opposite, namely, to conduct himself towards his fellow with the quality of kindness and a display of abundant love to the extreme limits, without becoming provoked into anger, G-d forbid, or to revenge in kind, G-d forbid, but rather to repay the offenders with favors, as taught in the Zohar, that one should learn from the example of Yosef towards his brothers.

(Tanya, ch. 12)

Therefore, my beloved and dear ones, i beg of you to make an effort with all your heart and soul to drive into your heart the love for one's fellow man, as it is written (Zechariah 8:17): "And none of you should consider in your hearts that which is evil to his fellow man." Such consideration should never rise in the heart, and if it does rise, one is to push it away from the heart "As smoke is driven away" and truly like an idolatrous thought, for to speak evil is as grave as idolatry, incest, and the shedding of blood combined. if this be true of speech....; And the advantage of thought over speech, whether for the good or for the better, is already known to all the wise of heart.

(Tanya, Iggeres HaKodesh, Epistle 23).

On the above, from Iggeres Hakodesh, ch. 23, where the Alter Rebbe writes, "Therefore, my beloved and dear ones, I beg of you to make an effort with all your heart and soul to drive into your heart the love for one's fellow man," the Tzemach Tzedek comments: "One who drives Ahavas Yisrael into his heart becomes a beloved friend of the Alter Rebbe."

(Sefer HaSichos 5704, p. 22)

The Tzemach Tzedek once said to his son the Rebbe Maharash: For one who helps another Jew in his livelihood, even if he helps him earn a mere 70 kopeks (a low-value Russian coin) on a calf, all the gates to the heavenly chambers are open for him. Years later the Rebbe Maharash added: one ought to know the route to the heavenly chambers, but actually, it is not crucial. You only need the main thing: to help another wholeheartedly, with sensitivity, and to take pleasure in doing a kindness to another. (HaYom Yom, p. 66)

The Tzemach Tzedek once said: Aleph, Beis, Gimmel, Daled. Aleph stands for Ahavah/love. Beis stands for Berachah/blessing. Gimmel stands for Gaavah/arrogance and Daled stands for Dalus/poverty. Where there is love there is blessing; where there is arrogance there is poverty.


(Igros Kodesh of the Rebbe, Vol. 4, p. 312)

The Rebbe Maharash once said: of what good is chassidus and piety if the main quality, Ahavas Yisrael, is lacking - even to the extent of causing (G-d forbid) anguish to another?

(HaYom Yom, p. 77)

Once the Rebbe Rashab instructed his son the Previous Rebbe to travel to a particular place to help a particular chassid and businessman. When the Previous Rebbe returned he told his father, "I have done everything you told me. I did the favor in the best manner possible." The Rebbe Rashab replied, "You are making a mistake. The favor you have done is a favor for yourself, not for the other. The A-lmighty has done the favor for the other; he arranged emissaries to fulfill the divine providence. The favor you have done is for yourself as it says in the Midrash (Vayikra Rabbah 34:10), "More than the house owner does for the poor man, the poor man does for the house owner."

(Igros Kodesh of the Previous Rebbe, Vol. 4, p. 46)
Title: Re: Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over
Post by: muman613 on May 19, 2014, 04:46:22 PM
When I post about this topic I usually get some people who want to know where 'zealotry' fits in, how the Kahanist ideal can be expressed when we have so many Jewish traitors. I have heard Chaims explanation and I fully agree with him on everything.

There most certainly is a place in Judaism for zealotry as clearly demonstrated in the Torah portion of Pinchas. But it must be clear that Zealotry in Judaism is only meritorious if it contains no personal agenda nor self aggrandizing. We say we want to stone the homosexual it must be not because we hate the homosexual, but rather because Hashem commanded us to do so we must do so. Because we must hate evil we must eradicate it from our midst, not to make us better than others, but because Hashem said we must.

Zealotry is good when it is done in order to make Hashem's name great in this world...



http://ravkooktorah.org/PINCHAS_65.htm

Pinchas: Genuine Zealotry

"Pinchas... zealously avenged My cause among the Israelites.... Therefore, tell him that I have given him My covenant of peace." (Num. 25:11-12)

Why did God present Pinchas, the archetypical zealot, with a covenant of peace? What was the nature of this covenant?

The Prayer of Shemuel HaKatan

The Talmud (Berachot 28b) recounts that Rabban Gamliel, who headed the Sanhedrin in Yavneh after the destruction of Jerusalem, saw the need to make an addition to the daily prayer. The Jewish people needed heavenly protection against heretics and informers. But Rabban Gamliel had trouble finding a scholar capable of composing such a prayer.

In the end, Shemuel HaKatan ('Samuel the modest') agreed to formulate the prayer, called Birkat HaMinim. Why was it so difficult to find a scholar to author this prayer? What made Shemuel HaKatan so qualified for the task?

By its very nature, prayer is a medium of harmony and understanding, full of kindness and love. Any scholar on an appropriate spiritual level is capable of writing prayers that are fitting for a holy and wise nation.

A prayer decrying slanderers and heretics, however, touches upon powerful emotions of hostility and anger. We naturally feel hatred towards our foes and the enemies of our people. To compose a fitting prayer against enemies requires an individual who is utterly pure and holy, one who has succeeded in eliminating all hatred and petty resentments from his heart. In order that such a prayer will be pure, its sole intention must be to limit the damage and correct the evil caused by the wicked, as they impede the world's spiritual and ethical progress. It is for the sake of this pure, unselfish motive that we plead that God vanquish the wicked and foil their evil plans.

Even though one's initial motives are pure, if he is subject to even the slightest feelings of animosity that are naturally aroused when one feels attacked, his thoughts will be tainted by personal hatred, and his prayer will deviate from the true intent. Only Shemuel HaKatan was a suitable candidate to compose this difficult prayer. His life's motto was "Do not rejoice when your enemy falls"  (Avot 4:24). Shemuel succeeded in removing all feelings of enmity from his heart, even for personal enemies. Only this saintly scholar was able to compose a prayer against slanderers that would convey the feelings of a pure heart, expressing the soul's inner aspirations for complete universal good.

Refining Zeal

From Shemuel HaKatan we see that zealotry is not a simple matter. Zeal must be carefully refined to ensure that it is truly for the sake of heaven. As Rav Kook explained in Orot HaKodesh (vol. III, p. 244):

"We need to refine the attribute of zeal, so that when it enters the realm of the holy, it should be a pure zeal for God. Since zealotry often contains some slight influence of human failings, our powers of self-examination must determine its primary motive. We must ensure that it is not based on personal jealousy, which rots one's very bones, but rather a zeal for God, which provides a covenant of peace."

When God gave Pinchas a covenant of peace, He affirmed that Pinchas' act of zealotry — defending the Jewish people from idolatrous influences — was performed with pure motives. Only God could testify as to the purity of Pinchas' zeal, that he had acted solely for the sake of Heaven, without any admixture of pettiness or personal animosity. Pinchas' zeal was the product of his burning love for God, an expression of his desire to bring true peace (shalom) and perfection (shleimut) to the world.

(Gold from the Land of Israel, pp. 275-277. Adapted from Olat Re'iyah vol. I, p. 278)
Title: Re: Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over
Post by: Every Jew AK47 on May 19, 2014, 05:24:03 PM
I appreciate the time you have taken to make such a deep, comprehensive post, using Talmudic wisdom to help explain the issues at hand.  I have only had brief time to skim over the large amount of information you have written, but will take time to read them in more detail later.  However, let me address a few points on your first response:

A Jew is not perfect, we never were intended to be perfect, and despite our imperfection Hashem still loves us and walks with us. Judaism is not a contest of 'holier than though' attitudes either. Some of your comments seem to draw comparisons between what you believe Judaism is supposed to be, and the failings of those you observe from attaining those lofty goals. We are commanded to be the best we can be, a slogan the US Army molded into 'BE ALL YOU CAN BE' which is a goal we all should try to attain. Hashem does not ask more from us than we can acheive, he gives us all we need to acheive our personal and national missions and it is up to us to make use of our G-d given talents to change the world in a positive way.
  Muman, I am not the one to condemn or point the finger..  In fact, it is I who is the hunted one, I am the one that people mock , insult and consider Inferior.  I  only wish the Jews at the synagogues I have attended could live up to the standards that you are promoting here in your post.  Sadly, I feel the holier than thou attitude and the attitude of superiority and narcissism very strongly among the Jews I am around.  It seems everyone is out to make a name for themselves and promote their own superiority rather than form a chavurah and help bring Jews together, lifting one another up and help one another along the way.  An, example is when the Shadchan at the Sefardic kehillot I attended said no woman will marry me at the kehillot because my income is too low.  That was a big F YOU to me and a sign I was not as worthy of Jewish Olam Haba as they were.  My rabbi then proceeded to tell me to sign up for J-Date, since I couldn't marry anyone there.   I said, no thanks, I don't want the table scraps, I'll stay celibate, since I am considered inferior in my own community.    Basically, my credentials have disqualified me as being a Jew in their eyes.  My zealotry, desire, kindness , etc means nothing .  Did the fact me going to Africa to help dying widows and orphans hold any weight on my character? No..  People were more impressed with each other's cars or the type of camp or school their kids were attending.  The only praise I received at the Sefardic kehillot I attended was about the nice watch I was wearing.  Actually, I got the watch 60% off and only paid $150 for it, but it looks like a $1000 watch.  All the people dressed up so nicely at this wealthy community  that I tried my best with my ability to get good deals on liquidated attire/accessories to fit in.   

One of the main concepts of Judaism is caring for our fellow Jews, no matter how far or close they are to Hashem. Hashem says in the Torah to love our enemies (of course not physical enemies who want to kill us) and to not bear a grudge against them, we are to honestly and lovingly rebuke them in the attempt to return them to the correct path. We should not give rebuke which pushes a person farther from Hashem though, which is one reason rebuke is such a difficult commandment.

There are all kinds of bad issues within the Jewish communities, both the religious and irreligious. This is a fact of life and the Torah recognizes this. Only Hashsem knows what is truly in the hearts of men. Is a person pious or is he a sinner? We can only guess what the calculation Hashem uses to determine these issues.
I am not one to rebuke, but I am constantly looked down on and rebuked.    However, I will rebuke when I see atrocities committed.  As much as I respect the wisdom you are sharing Muman, I also think this mindset can be destructive and dangerous.  Where do we draw the line?  If my synagogue just ordained a lesbian rabbi, for sake of not rebuking my fellow Jew or risking lashon hara, should I just shut my mouth and go with the flow?   EVen though I consider myself the lowest of all Jews (e.g.I have only a few prayers memorized), I still feel a burning driving fire inside myself to speak out when I see people watering down Hashem's laws and trying to destroy the foundations that were built with sweat, blood and suffering of our ancestors.


My advice is always to work on yourself first, make yourself strong in your faith, make your mitzvot important to your lifestyle. Your making the mitzvot important to your life will have added effects on those who are around you. Work on your character traits in a way which makes you more dear to your fellow Jew, concentrate on the traits of compassion and mercy (two of the most revered traits of Hashem) and do not worry about stoning homosexuals. The laws concerning forbidden relationships is not as important as making yourself strong, and influencing others around you.
I don't hate homosexuals.. Heck, I don't even think we should stone them..  I just think they have no place in our synagogues and I think saying Judaism accepts homosexuality, allowing gay people to attend our kehillot, have gay marriages, etc is an abomination and any Jew who advocates this, in my eyes, is worse than a homosexual, him/herself.    Homosexuality is becoming very prevalent in the Conservative and Reform movement and I can see it is started to make its way into the Orthodox movement now.  IF we just sit back and shut our mouths for fear of offending our fellow Jew, we will find that our communities will be infiltrated and foundations will be destroyed for the sake of our emotions and fear of offending man.  But what if for the sake of pleasing man, we offend Hashem??



You should want to give money to your community, you should want to better the Jewish people around you. They are your family. It was this which led me to Teshuva, when a black Christian neighbor said 'Go back to your people'. The Jewish people are MY people, and they should be your people too.
Maybe, my community should give me money too?  If my rabbi is driving a very expensive car and living in a mansion, like the rabbis at the Chabad's I was visiting and I am struggling to make it, living in an inexpensive rental and risking being homeless every day, as my small bankrupted business is dwindling, may I ask, who should be giving who money?   Isn't a Jewish community, more than just giving lots of money to the Rabbi and synagogue, but also helping your fellow Jews?   If I am the poorest Jew, rather than telling me I am not welcomed, because I can not make the dues, maybe one of my wealthy brothers from the community can help a hard working, determined (not lazy, freeloading) Jew , like myself, to make his way into the community.   If I had as much cash as the Rabbis or many of members of the communities I was attending, I would not even think twice about donating lots of money to the kehillot.  As a matter of fact, many wealthy Jews boldly proclaim their donations on Shabbat to show how much they are giving.  I was told this practice use to be forbidden in ancient times, but now, somehow, vowing your donations out loud on Shabbat is considered honorable. 

I love all Jews, whether they put on Tefillin, say Shema, light candles, or not... Every Jew who was born Jewish has a portion in the world to come, and we should want to help them back on the path to listening to Hashems voice. We should feel personal responsibility when we see fellow Jews acting in a shameful way.
I am the kind of guy who may jump in front of a bullet for my fellow Jew..  I always felt I loved my own people much more than they ever loved me..  Whether they dawn tefillin, recite all prayers, etc means little to me.  A kind, humble and noble heart to me is always the greatest virtue, not how many prayers you can recite or if you own a $10,000 pair of hand-made tefillin.

We should not try to shame them, embarass them, or hate them. We should think about what we can do to gently nudge them in the right direction and we will gain merit for every Jew we help.
For the sake of not embarrassing or shaming anyone I vent my frustration here.. Nobody, knows what I think.  I am never allowed to say what I think .  Most Jews I know get very emotional if you even make the slightest criticism to them.  Perhaps, we can also be overly sensitive and this also has resulted in our communities from addressing some very serious issues??  Just a thought!

I do not think it is a panacea (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/panacea) to believe that joining a Yemenite community will solve all your problems. That is called idealism and usually a person is disappointed when they find out that the other community suffers almost the same problems as the community which you left. Always believing it is better in some other community leads many to depression.

Do not seek a community which is evil, but judge each one for the good. This is another Jewish concept, the benefit of the doubt... We should not assume that a person who is sinning is an evil person, he or she is just acting foolishly and will some day realize his or her sin....
Don't knock it til you try it, Muman..  And, no, I don't agree that every community is the same.  Of course, no community will be perfect and every group of people will have their problems.  I guess I feel it is worth a try though.  I have spent enough time with Jews here in USA and know I have no luck with them and I am more or less not welcomed and not liked.  Sure, maybe the Yemenite Jewish communities will be snobby, cold , unfriendly, women will be dressing slutty and people will look down on me cause I am unmarried, etc.   But, at least I know I made the effort to find out for myself.  My friend David told me the people are quite different and are quite accepting and live very simple lives.  OF course, he was there in the 1970s, so who knows what it is like today.   However, I do know not all Jewish communities are the same.  For example, most of synagogues here are Conservative/Reform synagogues and their behavior is considerably different than what I would experience from an Ultra-Orthodox Charedi or Satmar synagogue in New York.   I have lot of respect for these ULtra Orthodox Jews, but do not feel connected to Yiddish culture.  If I felt more Yiddish/Ashkenazi I would think Satmar/Ultra Orthodox Charedi sect would be good way to go, but  I cannot live up to their strict standards and don't feel connected to the strict Yiddish minhag they practice.   My heart feels more Middle Eastern.
Title: Re: Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over
Post by: muman613 on May 19, 2014, 06:09:48 PM
EJA44,

I can only relate how I experience my Chabad community and it seems much different than your experience. I attended for ten years without giving anything back. Now I feel I owe them because I see how they support others who do not have enough to give. We have a very good member, a Mizrachi fellow, who has fallen on bad times and has been unemployed for over a year now. He attends every Shabbat and Yom Tov and he is honored in our community. Last year I bought his etrog and four species for him, and I have contributed other times to support his mitzvot. I try to help everyone who comes through the doors at my Rabbis Chabad house.

I pray you find a community which will suit your needs. I believe you have a great Jewish neshama and I am of the belief your suffering will be for the good in the end. It is difficult to understand why you have to go through this at this time, but you should find a great reward at the end of the test...

Be humble, do not chase honor, and you will find that honor is coming to you...

http://www.torah.org/learning/integrity/fleehonor2.html
Title: Re: Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over
Post by: muman613 on May 19, 2014, 06:12:09 PM
Sorry to post so much information in a short time but here is another lesson from the great rabbi Hillel:



http://www.torah.org/learning/pirkei-avos/chapter1-13.html

Chapter 1 Mishna 13
By Rabbi Dovid Rosenfeld

The Challenge of Life

"He (Hillel) used to say, one who seeks a name loses his name, one who does not increase decreases, one who does not learn deserves death, and one who makes use of the crown [of Torah] will pass away."

This mishna was stated in rather poetic Aramaic, the spoken language during the Second Temple period and the language of much of the Talmud. It consists of short sayings focusing primarily on our attitude towards Torah study and growth. It's interesting to note, before beginning our discussion, that the same Hillel - who in the last mishna asked us to love peace and humanity in the spirit of Aharon - in this mishna requires us to have a much sterner attitude toward ourselves.

"One who seeks a name loses his name": One who actively seeks honor for himself will not be able to acquire it. The Talmud (Eruvin 13b) states, "One who runs after honor will have it run away from him; one who runs from honor will have it pursue him." Honor is an elusive animal. It should be viewed as an after-effect of true accomplishment. Do something honorable, and honor will follow. Pursue honor for its own sake, and you will achieve little more than demonstrate your unworthiness of honor.

"One who does not increase, decreases": This is understood by the commentators to refer to Torah study. One may not rest on his laurels in his accomplishments in acquiring knowledge, even if he has learned a lot. The Torah is infinite in breadth and depth (something I appreciate more and more the more I learn). We will never master it completely, but are obligated to continually grow in it and accept new challenges. We will learn (Chapter 2, Mishna 16), "It is not expected that you will finish the work, but you are not free to waste time from it." The language of this mishna - one who does increase decreases - creates a perception that study is a constant struggle, in which we either rise or fall, but never remain the same.

Rabbi Eliyahu Dessler, of England and later Israel, one of the great Jewish thinkers during and after the time of the War, explained that God constantly challenges each of us, and the type of test depends on each individual's level. For one person, say one raised in a strictly Orthodox home, the challenge may be to keep up his concentration for a 45 minute Shacharis (morning prayer service). For another, who had no such upbringing, the challenge may be to order fish at the MacDonald's rather than a cheeseburger. The Orthodox Jew who may let his mind wander at synagogue - though he would never dream of walking into a MacDonald's - may very well be slipping and in a sense farther from God than the non-affiliated who keeps kosher to his limited knowledge. As soon as a person wins or loses one challenge, he will be challenged with something slightly harder or easier. The higher a challenge we are ready for the better off we are, for it enables us to reach higher levels. But how close one is to God depends more on his or her direction than his current challenge-level.

Judaism places a great deal of emphasis on training and raising our children properly. Even at ages far too young to appreciate the significance of Judaism, they become ingrained with many of the laws and customs of our tradition. The purpose of this is basically to give them a head start in their life goals. They will not need to overcome challenges of keeping kosher or intermarrying, and will be ready to accept higher challenges. At the same time the Talmud (Berachos 34b) tells us, "Where those who repent stand (in proximity to God), fully righteous do not stand." One who has tasted sin and then separates himself has covered more ground and has accomplished more than one who has never faced such temptations. Still, we do not ask for additional challenges, not knowing if we'll pass them. God does have His ways, however, and despite our best precautions God may challenge us by placing us in less than ideal circumstances (spending a Sabbath at the airport etc.).

Hillel continues by stating "one who does not learn, deserves death." There is nothing as unforgivable as one who never accepts life's challenges in the first place. Before winning or losing challenges, one must accept that there is a purpose to his life. We may very well lose some battles, but we must never fail to recognize that there is a war.

(The final statement of the mishna, "one who makes use of the crown [of Torah] will pass away", will appear again in Chapter 4 Mishna 5 and will be discussed God willing there.)

Pirkei-Avos, Copyright (c) 1999 by Rabbi Dovid Rosenfeld and Project Genesis, Inc.
Title: Re: Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over
Post by: Ephraim Ben Noach on May 19, 2014, 07:33:09 PM
I appreciate the time you have taken to make such a deep, comprehensive post, using Talmudic wisdom to help explain the issues at hand.  I have only had brief time to skim over the large amount of information you have written, but will take time to read them in more detail later.  However, let me address a few points on your first response:
  Muman, I am not the one to condemn or point the finger..  In fact, it is I who is the hunted one, I am the one that people mock , insult and consider Inferior.  I  only wish the Jews at the synagogues I have attended could live up to the standards that you are promoting here in your post.  Sadly, I feel the holier than thou attitude and the attitude of superiority and narcissism very strongly among the Jews I am around.  It seems everyone is out to make a name for themselves and promote their own superiority rather than form a chavurah and help bring Jews together, lifting one another up and help one another along the way.  An, example is when the Shadchan at the Sefardic kehillot I attended said no woman will marry me at the kehillot because my income is too low.  That was a big F YOU to me and a sign I was not as worthy of Jewish Olam Haba as they were.  My rabbi then proceeded to tell me to sign up for J-Date, since I couldn't marry anyone there.   I said, no thanks, I don't want the table scraps, I'll stay celibate, since I am considered inferior in my own community.    Basically, my credentials have disqualified me as being a Jew in their eyes.  My zealotry, desire, kindness , etc means nothing .  Did the fact me going to Africa to help dying widows and orphans hold any weight on my character? No..  People were more impressed with each other's cars or the type of camp or school their kids were attending.  The only praise I received at the Sefardic kehillot I attended was about the nice watch I was wearing.  Actually, I got the watch 60% off and only paid $150 for it, but it looks like a $1000 watch.  All the people dressed up so nicely at this wealthy community  that I tried my best with my ability to get good deals on liquidated attire/accessories to fit in.   
I am not one to rebuke, but I am constantly looked down on and rebuked.    However, I will rebuke when I see atrocities committed.  As much as I respect the wisdom you are sharing Muman, I also think this mindset can be destructive and dangerous.  Where do we draw the line?  If my synagogue just ordained a lesbian rabbi, for sake of not rebuking my fellow Jew or risking lashon hara, should I just shut my mouth and go with the flow?   EVen though I consider myself the lowest of all Jews (e.g.I have only a few prayers memorized), I still feel a burning driving fire inside myself to speak out when I see people watering down Hashem's laws and trying to destroy the foundations that were built with sweat, blood and suffering of our ancestors.

I don't hate homosexuals.. Heck, I don't even think we should stone them..  I just think they have no place in our synagogues and I think saying Judaism accepts homosexuality, allowing gay people to attend our kehillot, have gay marriages, etc is an abomination and any Jew who advocates this, in my eyes, is worse than a homosexual, him/herself.    Homosexuality is becoming very prevalent in the Conservative and Reform movement and I can see it is started to make its way into the Orthodox movement now.  IF we just sit back and shut our mouths for fear of offending our fellow Jew, we will find that our communities will be infiltrated and foundations will be destroyed for the sake of our emotions and fear of offending man.  But what if for the sake of pleasing man, we offend Hashem??


Maybe, my community should give me money too?  If my rabbi is driving a very expensive car and living in a mansion, like the rabbis at the Chabad's I was visiting and I am struggling to make it, living in an inexpensive rental and risking being homeless every day, as my small bankrupted business is dwindling, may I ask, who should be giving who money?   Isn't a Jewish community, more than just giving lots of money to the Rabbi and synagogue, but also helping your fellow Jews?   If I am the poorest Jew, rather than telling me I am not welcomed, because I can not make the dues, maybe one of my wealthy brothers from the community can help a hard working, determined (not lazy, freeloading) Jew , like myself, to make his way into the community.   If I had as much cash as the Rabbis or many of members of the communities I was attending, I would not even think twice about donating lots of money to the kehillot.  As a matter of fact, many wealthy Jews boldly proclaim their donations on Shabbat to show how much they are giving.  I was told this practice use to be forbidden in ancient times, but now, somehow, vowing your donations out loud on Shabbat is considered honorable. 
I am the kind of guy who may jump in front of a bullet for my fellow Jew..  I always felt I loved my own people much more than they ever loved me..  Whether they dawn tefillin, recite all prayers, etc means little to me.  A kind, humble and noble heart to me is always the greatest virtue, not how many prayers you can recite or if you own a $10,000 pair of hand-made tefillin.
For the sake of not embarrassing or shaming anyone I vent my frustration here.. Nobody, knows what I think.  I am never allowed to say what I think .  Most Jews I know get very emotional if you even make the slightest criticism to them.  Perhaps, we can also be overly sensitive and this also has resulted in our communities from addressing some very serious issues??  Just a thought!
Don't knock it til you try it, Muman..  And, no, I don't agree that every community is the same.  Of course, no community will be perfect and every group of people will have their problems.  I guess I feel it is worth a try though.  I have spent enough time with Jews here in USA and know I have no luck with them and I am more or less not welcomed and not liked.  Sure, maybe the Yemenite Jewish communities will be snobby, cold , unfriendly, women will be dressing slutty and people will look down on me cause I am unmarried, etc.   But, at least I know I made the effort to find out for myself.  My friend David told me the people are quite different and are quite accepting and live very simple lives.  OF course, he was there in the 1970s, so who knows what it is like today.   However, I do know not all Jewish communities are the same.  For example, most of synagogues here are Conservative/Reform synagogues and their behavior is considerably different than what I would experience from an Ultra-Orthodox Charedi or Satmar synagogue in New York.   I have lot of respect for these ULtra Orthodox Jews, but do not feel connected to Yiddish culture.  If I felt more Yiddish/Ashkenazi I would think Satmar/Ultra Orthodox Charedi sect would be good way to go, but  I cannot live up to their strict standards and don't feel connected to the strict Yiddish minhag they practice.   My heart feels more Middle Eastern.
Satmar? What the heck?

Middle Eastern? Like a ......

And no you did not post on Shabbat. I just thought it was odd you were on the computer on Shabbat, after complaining about others.
Title: Re: Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over
Post by: Every Jew AK47 on May 19, 2014, 09:23:15 PM
When was I on my computer on Shabbat?

Never mind I am done on this forum this is my last post go talk all the drek about me you want.  Jews are great at insulting their own although you are not a Jew I am reading so maybe you should mine your own fing biz, do I tell you how to behave as a christian or whatever you are?

I'm sure you people will be happy when I am dead.  You people love talking crap but I wonder what anyone here us really doing to actually help save Israel except b1tch and complain on this forum.
Title: Re: Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over
Post by: Israel Chai on May 19, 2014, 09:30:18 PM
When was I on my computer on Shabbat?

Never mind I am done on this forum this is my last post go talk all the drek about me you want.  Jews are great at insulting their own although you are not a Jew I am reading so maybe you should mine your own fing biz, do I tell you how to behave as a christian or whatever you are?

I'm sure you people will be happy when I am dead.  You people love talking crap but I wonder what anyone here us really doing to actually help save Israel except b1tch and complain on this forum.

How could we be happy when you're dead. We don't know you. Honestly, you keep feeding your self-hating "humility" which is really pride, and you're going to go into a depression.

Ephy isn't Jewish, so I can't fault him like a would a Jew for being some sort of a reporter shabbat detective, but no one's talking [censored] about you. If what you're saying is serious, as my brother, I recommend you seek immediate psychological help, but I can't honestly see a normal Jew saying these things.

I'm pretty sure the saving Israel goes on in the Hebrew forum. This is more like the bitching and complaining and fund raising forum, from what I noticed, and they try to help America.
Title: Re: Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over
Post by: Ephraim Ben Noach on May 19, 2014, 09:33:51 PM
When was I on my computer on Shabbat?

Never mind I am done on this forum this is my last post go talk all the drek about me you want.  Jews are great at insulting their own although you are not a Jew I am reading so maybe you should mine your own fing biz, do I tell you how to behave as a christian or whatever you are?

I'm sure you people will be happy when I am dead.  You people love talking crap but I wonder what anyone here us really doing to actually help save Israel except b1tch and complain on this forum.
I'm not a Jew, and I'm not a Christian! But don't lie to me... Don't bash Chabad when you're online on Shabbat. Tell me you were not on technology?

I like you, I'm just confused about you. ..

Getting yourself killed only makes you look weak in the eyes of HaShem!
Title: Re: Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over
Post by: Ephraim Ben Noach on May 19, 2014, 09:36:07 PM
How could we be happy when you're dead. We don't know you. Honestly, you keep feeding your self-hating "humility" which is really pride, and you're going to go into a depression.

Ephy isn't Jewish, so I can't fault him like a would a Jew for being some sort of a reporter shabbat detective, but no one's talking [censored] about you. If what you're saying is serious, as my brother, I recommend you seek immediate psychological help, but I can't honestly see a normal Jew saying these things.

I'm pretty sure the saving Israel goes on in the Hebrew forum. This is more like the bitching and complaining and fund raising forum, from what I noticed, and they try to help America.
Samething. ???
Title: Re: Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over
Post by: Israel Chai on May 19, 2014, 09:51:43 PM
I'm not a Jew, and I'm not a Christian! But don't lie to me... Don't bash Chabad when you're online on Shabbat. Tell me you were not on technology?

I like you, I'm just confused about you. ..

Getting yourself killed only makes you look weak in the eyes of HaShem!

Ah, srry for calling you some kind of reporter shabbat detective, I didn't realize you were calling him a hypocrite, not talking about sins.
Title: Re: Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over
Post by: muman613 on May 19, 2014, 10:03:03 PM
Listen...

I do believe EJA44 is Jewish... We are in a virtual world here and it is hard to determine who is who and when is when. Do you realize how much it would hurt to be accused of not being a Jew when you really are, and you really want to love your Jewish heritage? Should we push someone away just because they don't conform to what we expect from a fellow Jew. Maybe some things are said in depression and others in desperation...

I don't think we should push anyone away for what was said in these threads.

Title: Re: Arutz Sheva (IsraelNationalNews) breaks news David Tomb is handed over
Post by: Israel Chai on May 19, 2014, 10:55:43 PM
Listen...

I do believe EJA44 is Jewish... We are in a virtual world here and it is hard to determine who is who and when is when. Do you realize how much it would hurt to be accused of not being a Jew when you really are, and you really want to love your Jewish heritage? Should we push someone away just because they don't conform to what we expect from a fellow Jew. Maybe some things are said in depression and others in desperation...

I don't think we should push anyone away for what was said in these threads.

Yeah, people straight up said I wasn't Jewish when I came here, and it's incredibly frustrating, because how are you really going to prove that online. I didn't say he was a goy though, just the way he's acting isn't exactly kosher, but of course, if he shows he can have humility and continue to talk despite that, assuming he's here l'shem shamayim, then the hand of brotherhood is always out. If someone said they wanted to kill my sister, no matter how evil, I would fight. There's still a chance, and if you try to help someone make teshuva, and they refuse, you get their share in the world to come. Even a beis din when the temple was standing wouldn't execute her, and Judaism is a lot to take in for someone who was never exposed to it, so promoting murder and calling it Judaism is going to have the opposite effect.