Jew Vs. Muslim YouTube

[Sarah]

"Spy not behind the backs of others. Would any of you like to eat the flesh of his dead brother?"

No thank you. I'll pass on eating my brother's carcass.

Bukhari:V1B3N68

Another one Judeaoncapta. This is more of a figure of speech....however some muslims say it is the punishment that one receives if they spy,slandar or backbite, in the hellfire or the Day of Judgement.

I actually think it says a lot. Backbiting, spying and slandaring that causes harm and ridicule to another person, yet is committed behind their backs and out of reach of their hearing...is like destroying them without them being able to defend themselves since they don't know. For another human to do this, bit by bit, rumour by rumour, its taken in the same context as picking and eating the flesh of another human destroying them.

It is usually in reference to gossip and talking behind the backs of others secretly which is considered bad.

[judeanoncapta]

Sarah, we can deal with the funny Islamic quotes later.

First please adress the Satanic quotes. Namely these:

Tabari VI:110 "Thus Allah removed the sorrow from his Messenger, reassured him about that which he had feared, and cancelled the words which Satan had cast on his tongue, that their gods were exalted high-flying cranes (goddesses) whose intercession was accepted with approval. He now revealed, following the mention of 'Al-Lat, Al-Uzza, and Manat,' the words: 'are yours the males and his the females? That indeed is an unfair division!"

Qur'an 22:53 "He may make the suggestions thrown in by Satan, the Devil's proposals, but a trial and temptation for those in whose hearts is a disease. Verily the wrong-doers are in a schism. And those on whom knowledge has been bestowed may learn that the (Qur'an) is the truth from your Lord, that they may believe, and their hearts may submit lowly before it."

Read this, anyone who is bothered by the fact that Muhammad admitted that some of the Quran was actually the words of the devil is one of " those in whose hearts is a disease"

Tabari VI:110 "When Muhammad brought a revelation from Allah canceling what Satan had cast on the tongue of His Prophet, the Quraysh said, 'Muhammad has repented of what he said concerning the position of our gods with Allah."

[AbdullahSydney]

Glory be to God

Peace be with you, for the sake of God. With peace we remain in discussion. We are so lucky, compared to those who now live in the lands described in the Tanach, and who now fight over them.

If they were trying to discuss these things, perhaps someone would be dead already. I don't know. I shouldn't mention it, but it is a reality, and we each are still alive, and have time to ask God for more mercy for ourselves or our loved ones. Thanks be to God.

A reply to Mills.

The scripture I read never commands a submitter to hate every Jew. The scripture commands the submitter to talk to the Jew with the revelations guiding the discussion. This is what I'm commanded in my relations to you.

If a Jew has strayed so far from the Torah that he is no longer recognisable as a follower of God's religion, I would begin to be upset with him, but then I would just not live near him, and not spend my money in his shop.

I would not eat with him except for the sake of this propagation or for the sake of glorifying God's name together. I would not revile him or be jealous. I would busy myself with something useful, God willing.

Where the book mentions the errors of the Jews, this is a kindness from God, as God is the one that can bring up the topic and then forgive the repenting person.

As I'm not God, I bring up the topics in the wrong moments, and sometimes, I add my own guesses. The guess that some of the Children of Israel must have thought Moses was God or an incarnation of God is my own work.

I think it's a fair guess. If I'm wrong, it's my error and I bear it. The scripture mentions that Christians have deified Jesus, to different degrees, and I can't argue with that. I've met a number of elders and priests who have literally exclaimed to me with wide eyes and open arms "But Jesus is God!".

Not all of them think this. Some of them see that Jesus was a teacher, teaching the Jews and reminding them, but these people are generally not found near churches in my experience.

Perhaps in another era there might have been Christians who did not give Jesus a share in divinity. Apparently in Egypt there have been many. The Mount of Sinai is more likely to be a place to find correct accounts of Jesus' teachings, because the Mount of Sinai is used in the Qur'an as something sworn by:

By the fig and the olive. By Mount Sinai. And this honored town. We created man in the best design. Then turned him into the lowliest of the lowly. Except those who believe and lead a righteous life; they receive a reward that is well deserved. Why do you still reject the faith? Is God not the most wise, of all the wise ones?

So, please forgive me if I've offended you. I don't know all your actions, and I didn't enter this forum to annoy you or insult you. The criticisms of the scripture against people of the book obviously only apply to those who are guilty of such transgressions.

In every religion there are people obeying and people not obeying. That is across all religions if I'm not mistaken. The Qur'an mentions: Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the Christians, and the converts; anyone who believes in God, and believes in the last day, and leads a righteous life, will receive their recompense from their Lord. They have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.

Peace be with you and thank you for your time.

Please don't fund the killing. Please show patience and ask the Israelis to let the electricity be on. Shouldn't they let the electricity be switched on in the hospitals? I hope my information is not incorrect from the media.

[judeanoncapta]

Please don't fund the killing. Please show patience and ask the Israelis to let the electricity be on. Shouldn't they let the electricity be switched on in the hospitals? I hope my information is not incorrect from the media.

Israelis have no obligation to continue to give FREE electricity and water to people who are actively trying to kill them.

[Sarah]

Qur'an 22:53 "He may make the suggestions thrown in by Satan, the Devil's proposals, but a trial and temptation for those in whose hearts is a disease. Verily the wrong-doers are in a schism. And those on whom knowledge has been bestowed may learn that the (Qur'an) is the truth from your Lord, that they may believe, and their hearts may submit lowly before it."

Ok. Firstly the Quranic verse....i read it but it didn't really make sense, until i had to look up the preceding verse, here it is:

22:52 Never did We send an apostle or a prophet before thee, but, when he framed a desire, Satan threw some (vanity) into his desire: but Allah will cancel anything (vain) that Satan throws in, and Allah will confirm (and establish) His Signs: for Allah is full of Knowledge and Wisdom:

22:53: That He may make the suggestions thrown in by Satan, but a trial for those in whose hearts is a disease and who are hardened of heart: verily the wrong-doers are in a schism far (from the Truth).

The verse before states that God will cancel and eradicate anything that Satan throws in, and confirm his signs through e.g. nature ,the holy books etc.

The next verse, the one you quoted.....is not talking about Muhammed but God Himself, because its with a capital H in "He".......and this verse basically means that the suggestions Satan made (that were eradicated by God because they were Vain, so don't mix with the verses or prophecies) are actually used by God as a test, trial and temptation (this could be say, greed) to test those whos hearts are blackened with sin, thus diseased and hardened...thats the reason you could find this (greed) inside them because they succumb to it and disease their heart with sins. These people do not open their hearts to faith so they stay bad.
These people are of course wrong-doers and are not following the truth because they remain (greedy) and do not repent.

That verse has nothing to do with the revelations coming from demons...?! You highlighted one part but not the rest.


-------------------------------------------------------------------

Thus Allah removed the sorrow from his Messenger, reassured him about that which he had feared, and cancelled the words which Satan had cast on his tongue, that their gods were exalted high-flying cranes (goddesses) whose intercession was accepted with approval. He now revealed, following the mention of 'Al-Lat, Al-Uzza, and Manat,' the words: 'are yours the males and his the females? That indeed is an unfair division!"

When Muhammad was talking to the Quraysh he said something that was wrong regarding their idols, so God sent down a revelation telling him he was wrong, correcting him and telling him that he had been affected by the evil whispering of Satan. The prophet said something good about the idols out of ignorance, and Allah sent more teachings down disproving this. Nothing about revelations being satanic. It wasn't even regarding revelations just whilst he was talking and made a mistake which humans do.

Tabari VI:110 "When Muhammad brought a revelation from Allah canceling what Satan had cast on the tongue of His Prophet, the Quraysh said, 'Muhammad has repented of what he said concerning the position of our gods with Allah."

This is just reiterating the hadith that i just wrote about. The revelation that Allah sent to Muhammad, telling him he was wrong and what he said had been cast upon his tongue by Satan (not a revelation) .......had obviously been understood and repented for by Muhammad and when he spread of its word and told the Quraysh that what he said was wrong and they just said that Muhammad had repented to Allah for what he said.

The Quran is meant to be from God in the muslims view so, Muhammad has nothing to do with its words that are written but just in the spreading of Islam and receiving of these  revelations.

I have said something about all the quotes, how about the ones i explained before?

[Husar]

Glory be to the Muppet's.

Animal be with you.



 

[Husar]

Gun be with you,
for THEY are coming...



 

[MassuhDGoodName]

AbdullahSydney,
You are completely insane and a homicidal maniac.
You believe yourself to be in possession of the complete and final revelation from G-d.
In actual fact, a Marxist or Atheist can always point to you and others like you, as lending credence to their argument that all religions are evil and must be eradicated.
I strongly suggest you and your fellow travelers return to Mecca and Medina where you belong, because "when push comes to shove", it will be Islam and its followers that will be eradicated.
Take my advice..go back where you came from.

[judeanoncapta]

Ok. Firstly the Quranic verse....i read it but it didn't really make sense, until i had to look up the preceding verse, here it is:



The verse before states that G-d will cancel and eradicate anything that Satan throws in, and confirm his signs through e.g. nature ,the holy books etc.

So you beleive that Satan threw some words into Muhammad's mouth?

By your own admission.

Sarah, I think you are a very nice young person but I cannot, for the life of me, understand how you can beleive a "Prophet" who according to his own admission cannot tell what verses are from
G-d and which verses are from Satan.

I simply am blown away by the fact that you trust his prophecy when he openly claims that he can't tell the difference between G-d speaking and Satan speaking.

The next verse, the one you quoted.....is not talking about Muhammed but G-d Himself, because its with a capital H in "He".......and this verse basically means that the suggestions Satan made (that were eradicated by G-d because they were Vain, so don't mix with the verses or prophecies) are actually used by G-d as a test, trial and temptation (this could be say, greed) to test those whos hearts are blackened with sin, thus diseased and hardened...

How does this "test" people and how is refusal to beleive a "Prophet" who according the his own admission cannot tell what verses are from G-d and which verses are from Satan indicative of Greed?

And if they don't mix with the prophecies, how do they test anyone?

They clearly did mix with the propecies as Muhammad's "Have you considered AlManat Alat and AlUzzah" verse in which he tells the Qurayza that Allah's daughters are great intercessors MADE IT'S WAY INTO THE QURAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

thats the reason you could find this (greed) inside them because they succumb to it and disease their heart with sins. These people do not open their hearts to faith so they stay bad.

I would say that some one who refuses to beleive in a prophet who cannot tell the difference between G-d and Satan is NOT bad.

Any sane person would close his heart to faith in such a prophet.

These people are of course wrong-doers and are not following the truth because they remain (greedy) and do not repent.

Sarah,  please tell me why people who disbeleive the insane and stupid prophecies of Muhammad are greedy.

That verse has nothing to do with the revelations coming from demons...?! You highlighted one part but not the rest.


When Muhammad was talking to the Quraysh he said something that was wrong regarding their idols, so G-d sent down a revelation telling him he was wrong, correcting him and telling him that he had been affected by the evil whispering of Satan.

Once again, why do you trust this Muhammad? He was "wrong regarding their idols" and "affected by the evil whispering of Satan".

Then why do you trust him when he claims prophecy?

The prophet said something good about the idols out of ignorance, and Allah sent more teachings down disproving this.

The idea that Allah sent any teachings down is based SOLELY on the testimony of Muhammad that this was so.

If he was ignorant about the proper place of idols and about the unity of G-d, WHY DO YOU TRUST HIS PROPHECY AT ALL?

WHY DO YOU TRUST ANYTHING HE SAYS?

Nothing about revelations being satanic. It wasn't even regarding revelations just whilst he was talking and made a mistake which humans do.

HE MADE A MISTAKE ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THERE SUCH THINGS AS GODDESSES?!?!?!?!?!?!

That is not a small thing. That shows that he is untrustworthy as a Prophet.

Tabari VI:110 "When Muhammad brought a revelation from Allah canceling what Satan had cast on the tongue of His Prophet, the Quraysh said, 'Muhammad has repented of what he said concerning the position of our gods with Allah."


This is just reiterating the hadith that i just wrote about. The revelation that Allah sent to Muhammad, telling him he was wrong and what he said had been cast upon his tongue by Satan (not a revelation) .......had obviously been understood and repented for by Muhammad and when he spread of its word and told the Quraysh that what he said was wrong and they just said that Muhammad had repented to Allah for what he said.

Doesn't it bother you that your "Prophet" said what had been cast upon his tongue by Satan?

That would bother me. If I looked in the Bible and it said that Elijah said something that Satan cast on his tongue, I would have a hard time believing anything in the Bible.

The Quran is meant to be from G-d in the muslims view so, Muhammad has nothing to do with its words that are written but just in the spreading of Islam and receiving of these  revelations.

Once again, EVERYTHING in Islam. The Quran and every Islamic teaching is based on his say so. You cannot claim that his character is irrelevant to the message of the Quran. Because he is the sole witness testifying that G-d spoke to him.

His character and trustworthiness is therefore very relevant to whether or not you should beleive him.

I have said something about all the quotes, how about the ones i explained before?

I will get to them as soon as I can. I am typing while holding a four month old baby.

[yeshuadisciple]

I don't know how anyone could read the Koran and Hadith and then be convinced of the "truth" of Islam.  It contains myths and bad science.  A fly does not contain the disease on one wing and cure on the other.  The sun does not set in pools of muddy water and there isn't a tribe of Jin living on the moon.  It's a bunch of nonsense inspired by an illiterate bedouin culture who told tall tales around camp fires.  I can forgive someone for being born into Islam and being brainwashed but for someone to read this drivel and actually convert to Islam is unforgivable and intellectual suicide.  I also find the Hadiths and Koran full of rather crude regulations like putting water up your nose and blowing it out and a lot of focus on bodily functions in general and an obsession with torture and murder.   The only reason Islam is a major "religion" is it was spread at the point of a sword and once it gains control of a nation they can never escape from its oppressive and smothering grasp for fear of death or torture.  The founder Mohammed is one of the nastiest and unpleasant men in recorded history and he managed to break all of the 10 commandments during his wretched life.  For muslims to say he is the greatest prophet greater than Moses or Jesus is completely insulting. He was an evil, evil man who would be incarcerated in any western country. 

Don't forget that in the early days of the Umayyad empire, converting to islam was very convenient.
Back then, everyone who was a muslims arab got $$ from the state.
Those who converted to islam got less $$ BUT got free money non-the less. A lot of people just converted because in the end, it would be better for them. Plus WHO would want to pay Jizzya!
Also, being a dhimmie is NO treat. Tell that to my Christian Coptic family from Egypt. GEES! It was terrible living there for them, just as it was terrible for other Christians I know who lived in Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Iran and so on.
But yes, there was also spreading by the sword.
I recall the story of the Sikh Khalsa martyrs who 3 of them were killed for refusing to convert to islam. They story is not unique. I know muslims say they didn't spread by the sword, they say "no, Christianity did not Islam" blah blah

-------------
So, I'm going to step out now, but I will come back later.
See ya!

Granted, not to say that Islam would exterminate everyone immediately, but the initial expansion was by war and then later they used apartheid and harassment to convince people of the "truth" of Islam.  When the crusaders took the holy land Damascus was still mostly Christian, but if you give it long enough all other religions die on the vine in a Muslim controlled country through the use of bribes and threats. 

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

The Qur'an says: The Jews say Abraham was a Jew, the Christians say Abraham was a Christian. Say: Nay, he was a submitter, he submitted to G-d.

Not true.  The Christians don't claim Abraham was a Christian, they claim he was a Jew just as the Torah says.  I guess the Koran must be wrong.  How can God's holy yext have such a blatant mistake in it Abdullah? It wouldn't.  The Koran is NOT God's holy text.  Thanks for giving me further evidence of that.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

A reply to Judeanoncapta,

Glory be to G-d, who knows which scriptures contain error and which do not. I didn't see the Qur'an revealed before my eyes. I bought it in a bookshop. It is by my failure to refute it that I came to believe it was true. It was by my getting sick of fighting against it that I found life was easier to accept it than fight it. It was by calling on G-d for guidance that I saw the parts I couldn't see.

If Mohamed was a true prophet, this text would not contain any error.  The fact that you readily admit, some of this text is in error, but have no idea which part or how much of it, while at the same time this is supposed to be Divine revelation - shows a lot about the weakness and arbitrariness in your religious beliefs. 

Only G-d will ever guide me. If I'm lost, He made me lost. If I'm in the right, He made me in the right. So, if Moses foretold of Mohammad's mission, why is it a strange thing to you that the mission came to bear? Read Deuteronomy, all of it, on a day of fasting, and prostrate much, and beg G-d for guidance, and tell me if your conscience still has resistance to the scriptures of Mohammad.

Interesting so in your "religion" there is no such thing as free choice.  In addition, Moses did NOT foretell of Mohammad's design unless you are referring to:  Deuteronomy 13: 2-6
"If there arise among you a prophet or a dreamer of dreams and he gives you a sign or a wonder, and the sign or the wonder of which he spoke to you comes to pass, and he says, "Let us go after other gods which you have not known and let us serve them."

"Do not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. God your Lord is testing you to see if you are truly able to love God your Lord with all your heart and all your soul."

Our test is to reject false prophets such as Muhammad - who seeks to divert our worship towards another 'god' whom we do not know, named Allah, the 'moon god.'  Indeed, there are many, MANY passages in Torah that assert that there is no annulment of the Revelation in Torah, nothing can be added or subtracted to the Torah, that any further text that contradicts it in any way is a falsehood from a false prophet.  This refers, although indirectly, to Muhammad and any other among the slew of false prophets and fake religions that have tried to undermine Torah over the generations.  There is no other reference to Muhammad of any other nature than this; that is, to assert the falsehood of him and others like him.

Please, don't reply to me about end times prophecies. They are not my focus, and they are for the people who need MTV or coffee. The essence of our religion, yours and mine, from the Muslim viewpoint, is discussed in chapter 17 of the Quran. This is the chapter which shows how Mohammad was educated in religion by G-d.

It's easy for you to say it's 'not your focus' or that it isn't the 'essence of our religion,' but no reputable Muslim imam or Islamic scholar would agree with you on that opinion.  It is just your opinion, it is not consistent with Islam, and therefore you cannot ignore these questions people ask about "end times prophesies" in either the Koran or the Hadith.  In normative Islam, these are integral parts of the faith, and not ONE single credible imam would disagree.  You cannot just interject your own feelings and emotions and claim it is the 'real' Islam.

The essence of our religion, yours and mine, from the Muslim viewpoint, is discussed in chapter 17 of the Quran. This is the chapter which shows how Mohammad was educated in religion by G-d...

He went on a night journey. G-d showed him things.

But this is not the essence of our religion or our revelation.  Your dreamer of dreams went into a cave and saw demons and "archangels" and saw a vision.  That is not the nature of our Revelation.

You shall not kill any person - for G-d has made life sacred - except in the course of justice. If one is killed unjustly, then we give his heir authority to enforce justice. Thus, he shall not exceed the limits in avenging the murder; he will be helped.

What you fail to realize about this passage is that it justifies just about any extent of murder according to the person's own definition of what "justice" consists of, and what avenging to enforce justice means to that individual "heir" with the authority to murder based on his definition of these premises.  "he will be helped" gives him the blank check to do as he pleases since afterall it is 'helped' ie it is carrying out Divine justice.  This passage reflects a system that encourages indiscriminate justice, endless revenge killings, carried out according to each individual's will, and lo and behold, the behavior of Muslims from the founding of the religion to present day, reflect the practical realities of this problematic passage.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Praise be to G-d, there is a remedy. The muslim position on a stubborn Jew or a blind Jew is not simply blast 'em out of their homes. Actually the Qur'an says you don't need to - the Jew, if he doesn't have much faith, will simply go away anyway so you don't have to.

Hmm, well the people here haven't gone away, keep coming back, and keep debating you further (and refuting you mightily).  Then again, we aren't the Jews who "doesn't have much faith" so maybe this passage doesn't apply to us.  Yes, it would make logical sense that the Jew without any faith or spirituality (ie a non practicing atheist) would not sit around with a missionary debating the merits of Torah or his own faith over the missionary's since he has no faith to begin with.  He would just want to be left alone by the annoying Mohamed-lover.

However, for the debating Jew who can't see the points made by a believer who is inviting him to G-d, the remedy is not more debate. The remedy I see in the Qur'an is to say: Shaddap! You and your debate! Go and feed the hungry!

Ahh, yes, but the Jew who is familiar with Torah would debate the missionary and tell them exactly how he feels about the missionary's false prophet and false religion.  But the Bukara/Ko-ran says for the people who ARE willing to debate and seek the truth, the 'remedy' is to "shaddap" and go donate food or money to the poor (which Jews do already part of our own religion, just to let you know).  That is a bona fide cop-out. 
If a person isn't willing to debate and just runs away because he doesn't care for your missionary work or your fake religion, then he is a Jew that is "stubborn" or "blind" or "without faith" so he will go away.  But for people willing to debate, avoid debating him and tell him to go do something else.  Could it be because he will prove you wrong if he is willing to debate?  What is there to fear of debate if you are so full of truth, oh abdullah.

[Dr. Dan]

Glory be to G-d

Peace be with you, for the sake of G-d. With peace we remain in discussion. We are so lucky, compared to those who now live in the lands described in The Tanach, and who now fight over them.

If they were trying to discuss these things, perhaps someone would be dead already. I don't know. I shouldn't mention it, but it is a reality, and we each are still alive, and have time to ask G-d for more mercy for ourselves or our loved ones. Thanks be to G-d.

A reply to Mills.

The scripture I read never commands a submitter to hate every Jew. The scripture commands the submitter to talk to the Jew with the revelations guiding the discussion. This is what I'm commanded in my relations to you.

If a Jew has strayed so far from the Torah that he is no longer recognisable as a follower of G-d's religion, I would begin to be upset with him, but then I would just not live near him, and not spend my money in his shop.

I would not eat with him except for the sake of this propagation or for the sake of glorifying G-d's name together. I would not revile him or be jealous. I would busy myself with something useful, G-d willing.

Where the book mentions the errors of the Jews, this is a kindness from G-d, as G-d is the one that can bring up the topic and then forgive the repenting person.

As I'm not G-d, I bring up the topics in the wrong moments, and sometimes, I add my own guesses. The guess that some of the Children of Israel must have thought Moses was G-d or an incarnation of G-d is my own work.

I think it's a fair guess. If I'm wrong, it's my error and I bear it. The scripture mentions that Christians have deified Jesus, to different degrees, and I can't argue with that. I've met a number of elders and priests who have literally exclaimed to me with wide eyes and open arms "But Jesus is G-d!".

Not all of them think this. Some of them see that Jesus was a teacher, teaching the Jews and reminding them, but these people are generally not found near churches in my experience.

Perhaps in another era there might have been Christians who did not give Jesus a share in divinity. Apparently in Egypt there have been many. The Mount of Sinai is more likely to be a place to find correct accounts of Jesus' teachings, because the Mount of Sinai is used in the Qur'an as something sworn by:

By the fig and the olive. By Mount Sinai. And this honored town. We created man in the best design. Then turned him into the lowliest of the lowly. Except those who believe and lead a righteous life; they receive a reward that is well deserved. Why do you still reject the faith? Is G-d not the most wise, of all the wise ones?

So, please forgive me if I've offended you. I don't know all your actions, and I didn't enter this forum to annoy you or insult you. The criticisms of the scripture against people of the book obviously only apply to those who are guilty of such transgressions.

In every religion there are people obeying and people not obeying. That is across all religions if I'm not mistaken. The Qur'an mentions: Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the Christians, and the converts; anyone who believes in G-d, and believes in the last day, and leads a righteous life, will receive their recompense from their Lord. They have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.

Peace be with you and thank you for your time.

Please don't fund the killing. Please show patience and ask the Israelis to let the electricity be on. Shouldn't they let the electricity be switched on in the hospitals? I hope my information is not incorrect from the media.

Wait a second. Doesn't it say in the Koran that when one first disagrees with you, you need to discuss and discuss until they agree with you, but if they don't, then you are justified in Jihad?  Abdullah, anyone with half a brain, will never accept the Koran and Islam...So spare yourself from you "peace" and declare Jihad already...We hate your prophet, piss be upon him...and your Koran is a plagarized version of our Torah...Islam makes people stupid!

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

As I'm not G-d, I bring up the topics in the wrong moments, and sometimes, I add my own guesses. The guess that some of the Children of Israel must have thought Moses was G-d or an incarnation of G-d is my own work.

I think it's a fair guess. If I'm wrong, it's my error and I bear it.

It's not a fair guess.  It's completely off base and wrong.  In addition, it is not only your error, it is also Muhammad's error at least regarding the Ezra comment.  Ironically it is one of the "proofs" of his religion, that Jews did this, yet it never happened in history.  He claims that we thought Ezra was son of G-d.  No Jewish community, no sect, no group, has ever thought this.  We have a vast history, we chronicle all of it, even of heretical beliefs and outgrown sects that came and went that we have record of and disdain.  Yet this is not one of them, not even from a small pocket of Jewish heretics, let alone normative Jewish belief (G-d forbid) like Muhammad (may he be punched in the nuts) claims.  Here is the quote straight from the horse Muhammad's mouth:  "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their saying with their mouths. They imitate the saying of those who disbelieved of old. Allah (Himself) fighteth against them. How perverse are they!" Sura 9:30.

Ko-ran wrong yet again.  This incorrect assertion is repeated in 19:88, referred to in 21:26, 17:56 and others.  Were these verses all the "in error" verses that were really inspired by Satan?  And what now, now that you have the proof that they are incorrect?  Is there a "Satan inspired Koranic Verses" dustbin somewhere for editing out parts of Koran found to be false?  Of course not.  And that is utterly dishonest.

[yeshuadisciple]

The Qur'an says: The Jews say Abraham was a Jew, the Christians say Abraham was a Christian. Say: Nay, he was a submitter, he submitted to G-d.

Not true.  The Christians don't claim Abraham was a Christian, they claim he was a Jew just as the Torah says.  I guess the Koran must be wrong.  How can G-d's holy yext have such a blatant mistake in it Abdullah? It wouldn't.  The Koran is NOT G-d's holy text.  Thanks for giving me further evidence of that.

We never say he was Christian, we point to him as one who was justified by faith and is a role model for us as Genesis 15 says:

G-d's Covenant With Abram

    1 After this, the word of the LORD came to Abram in a vision:
       "Do not be afraid, Abram.
       I am your shield, [a]
       your very great reward. "

    2 But Abram said, "O Sovereign LORD, what can you give me since I remain childless and the one who will inherit [c] my estate is Eliezer of Damascus?" 3 And Abram said, "You have given me no children; so a servant in my household will be my heir."

    4 Then the word of the LORD came to him: "This man will not be your heir, but a son coming from your own body will be your heir." 5 He took him outside and said, "Look up at the heavens and count the stars—if indeed you can count them." Then he said to him, "So shall your offspring be."

    6 Abram believed the LORD, and he credited it to him as righteousness.

    7 He also said to him, "I am the LORD, who brought you out of Ur of the Chaldeans to give you this land to take possession of it."

    8 But Abram said, "O Sovereign LORD, how can I know that I will gain possession of it?"

    9 So the LORD said to him, "Bring me a heifer, a goat and a ram, each three years old, along with a dove and a young pigeon."

    10 Abram brought all these to him, cut them in two and arranged the halves opposite each other; the birds, however, he did not cut in half. 11 Then birds of prey came down on the carcasses, but Abram drove them away.

    12 As the sun was setting, Abram fell into a deep sleep, and a thick and dreadful darkness came over him. 13 Then the LORD said to him, "Know for certain that your descendants will be strangers in a country not their own, and they will be enslaved and mistreated four hundred years. 14 But I will punish the nation they serve as slaves, and afterward they will come out with great possessions. 15 You, however, will go to your fathers in peace and be buried at a good old age. 16 In the fourth generation your descendants will come back here, for the sin of the Amorites has not yet reached its full measure."

    17 When the sun had set and darkness had fallen, a smoking firepot with a blazing torch appeared and passed between the pieces. 18 On that day the LORD made a covenant with Abram and said, "To your descendants I give this land, from the river [d] of Egypt to the great river, the Euphrates- 19 the land of the Kenites, Kenizzites, Kadmonites, 20 Hittites, Perizzites, Rephaites, 21 Amorites, Canaanites, Girgashites and Jebusites."

This passage also points out he was from ur of the Chaldees, so if anything he and Sarai were Chaldean to begin with, but in faith he was circumcised and his whole family and then his grandson  Jacob was renamed Israel and fathered the 12 sons who became the 12 tribes of Israel.  

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

(didnt real all of the above posts), but Abdulla let me ask you.

 You refer to Mohammed as being "the prophet Mohammed" -
 The definition of a Prophet is one who can tell a clear prophecy indicating something that will happen in the future, usually with all the odds going agains't it.
 I would like to know, if their is anywhere in the Koran where Mohammed gives a prophecy, because as far as I know their wasn't even one prophecy by the muslims, while by the christians their was one- "that the Jews wont return to the Holy Land" - which proved itself wrong. And by the Jewish Torah their are hundreds, allmost all of which allready happened + we are waiting for a few more which will happen in the near future (and some are actually happening now in our day and age).
 So once again my question to you is- How can you call Mohammad a prophet, if he had no prophecy?

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

I will wait for an answer.

[Husar]

I will wait for an answer.

Dear Tzvi,
since you will wait for a long while
to have your answer to your simple question,
I brought you some lecture and some tea,
so that you won't find the "waiting" boring...





 

[judeanoncapta]

I will wait for an answer.

Keep waiting. The only thing that muhammad predicted was that the world would end in 500 years which obviously did not come true in 1100 CE.

So Muhammad was just a charlatan who said whatever people wanted to hear to get them to join his religioun.

"You're a Jew?!?!?! Hey, We pray to Jerusalem. Oops not enough Jews are falling for this, let's go back to praying to Mecca so that the Pagan Arabs who worshipped a rock idol named allah who lived in a black rock in Mecca would join."

"You're a Christian?!?!?! Hey, we beleive Jesus was a great Muslim prophet."

"You're a Zoroastrian, think of Allah as the Black God."

"You're a pagan Arab?!?!?!?!   Good, continue worshipping Allah just stop worshipping his daughters or not depending on my mood."


Muhammad acted exactly like an Arab selling something in a Suq.

"For you?!?!?!?!     SPECIAL PRICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

[Ulli]

I will wait for an answer.

Keep waiting. The only thing that muhammad predicted was that the world would end in 500 years which obviously did not come true in 1100 CE.

So Muhammad was just a charlatan who said whatever people wanted to hear to get them to join his religioun.

"You're a Jew?!?!?! Hey, We pray to Jerusalem. Oops not enough Jews are falling for this, let's go back to praying to Mecca so that the Pagan Arabs who worshipped a rock idol named allah who lived in a black rock in Mecca would join."

"You're a Christian?!?!?! Hey, we beleive Jesus was a great Muslim prophet."

"You're a Zoroastrian, think of Allah as the Black G-d."

"You're a pagan Arab?!?!?!?!   Good, continue worshipping Allah just stop worshipping his daughters or not depending on my mood."


Muhammad acted exactly like an Arab selling something in a Suq.

"For you?!?!?!?!     SPECIAL PRICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

In this is a lot of truth. The lesser your knowledge in our scriptures, the easier is it for Muslimes to do so called "dawa" with you, because of the points you mentioned.

For every educated Christian or Jew is Islam totally unexceptable.

[KansasJew]

This is not a Recruitment Center for Islam. I suggest you either stop it now or let the banning begin!

[KansasJew]

Your last post was removed. For protection of our visitors and members.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Typical of an 'am haaretz,' the guy flees the second the going gets tough.  If you can't handle the heat Abdullah, get out of Muhammad's satanic kitchen.  He avoided answering all criticisms and questions and resorted to a blanket statement of "well... well.... welll... no matter what you say, I believe so and so was the prophet and this is the text".... Right.  In other words you have no defense, you've been backed into a corner, and you flee in terror that perhaps you made a mistake in diving into Islam, delusionally thinking that maybe in time you will look further into the religion and be able to answer those questions, if you close your eyes really tight the problems will go away.  You won't and they won't.  It's better to 'lift the veil' and come to grips that you made this honest mistake (really, it's no big deal, you can drop Islam and become normal again, no one will hold it against you) rather than run in fear and avoid addressing all these inherent problems with the weak Islamic fake, I mean faith.

[AbdullahSydney]

Mills,

peace be with you.

It seems you wish to inform God not only about his religion, but also about his prophets, while He is the knower of the secrets of the heavens and the earth.

Gloy be to God, he has no need of any of us, not one. We need him, He doesn't need us. If all of mankind went into the fire, it would be no problem for God.

He is rich, free of all wants. Are you still going to teach God something? Glory be to God, if He shows you mercy. Those who dispute the revelations of their lord in front of him are the those He will not even speak to on the day of judgement.

None is too proud to bow down to Him, save those upon whose hearts he has set a seal. I hate to say it, but you're fitting the description, Mills.

Yet, He knows your heart better than me, and He can forgive you better than me. One of the errors of the Jews, says the Qur'an, is that they fear people more than they fear God.

If you claim this is not your case, which I expect you will claim, then you could show some piety and clean up the foul mouths in this channel, and reduce some of the sick arrogance of the pictures and nicknames. Glory be to God, He loves not the arrogant.

Wouldn't you long to be humble? I would. Glory be to my Lord. If I have learned anything, it is from God - if I've made any error it is from me.

Should the sky fall upon you, or the earth split beneath you, who will save you but God? If you are resurrected and the mountains are flying in the sky, the seas boiling over, the sky like red oil, how will you be helped if not by God almighty?

Who has the power to help you? And if you ask for his help, and he rejects, where will you go? If I ask for his help and he rejects, where will I go? If my father, my mother, you father, or your mother, is rejected by God, where will they go?

To hell. To burn like a log in a fire, again and again and again.

Yet if God accepts you and forgives you, or me, or one of our relatives, and that person recieves his mercy, then wouldn't that be nice! Endless meadows with sweet smelling flowers, shade, nice food, delicious lamb, sweets, and a wine that doesn't get you drunk but is delicious - freedom, a place where there are no lies and no theft, no insults, no war, and where the greatest thing of all is to the face of your Lord, you creator, and feel the security of His closeness and protection.

Glory be to the God of Abraham.