JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: IsraeliGovtAreKapos on January 12, 2013, 09:52:26 PM
-
more than anything else. They have wonderfully primitive instincts. We have emancipated them, but they remain slaves looking for their masters all the same. They love being dominated" - Oscar Wilde
-
Well, they certainly appear to love butchering their unborn children. That's why they elected BHO twice.
-
I appreciate the anti-misandric effort, but is this really the place for these kinds of posts?
-
Sorry to hear you are having some girl problems, Ron. Hashem should help you find the one.
-
Sorry to hear you are having some girl problems, Ron. Hashem should help you find the one.
I think that there is a real problem of women being seduced by leftism and every evil, selfish, hedonistic philosophy on the planet in our society.
-
Women who want to get married generally want a provider and protector and in return want to make that person's life pleasant. That is not the same as wanting someone to be a slave master to her. Many women feel more natural in a supporting role and in letting their husband take the lead. This is not meaning that he's going to force his will on her and treat her like she's not an adult. This is a voluntary choice that many women make to let him be the leader but she never gives up her God-given human rights that all human beings have.
In society as a whole, some women are meant to be leaders. It depends on an individual's personality. I think we should be caring more about what's between someone's ears and what's in their heart than what's between someone's legs when it comes to whether we consider them for a leadership position in society or not such as for presidential positions, etc.
-
Wasn't Oscar Wild gay? He had homosexual relations...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscar_Wilde#Trials
Under the Libel Act 1843, Queensberry could avoid conviction for libel only by demonstrating that his accusation was in fact true, and furthermore that there was some "public benefit" to having made the accusation openly. Queensberry's lawyers thus hired private detectives to find evidence of Wilde's homosexual liaisons to prove the fact of the accusation. They decided on a strategy of portraying Wilde as a depraved older man who habitually enticed naive youths into a life of vicious homosexuality in order to demonstrate that there was some public interest in making the accusation openly, ostensibly to warn off other youths who might otherwise have become entrapped by Wilde.
The libel trial became a cause célèbre as salacious details of Wilde's private life with Taylor and Douglas began to appear in the press. A team of private detectives had directed Queensberry's lawyers, led by Edward Carson QC, to the world of the Victorian underground. Wilde's association with blackmailers and male prostitutes, cross-dressers and homosexual brothels was recorded, and various persons involved were interviewed, some being coerced to appear as witnesses since they too were accomplices to the crimes of which Wilde was accused.[114]
-
Sorry to hear you are having some girl problems, Ron. Hashem should help you find the one.
God help her.
-
Women who want to get married generally want a provider and protector and in return want to make that person's life pleasant. That is not the same as wanting someone to be a slave master to her. Many women feel more natural in a supporting role and in letting their husband take the lead. This is not meaning that he's going to force his will on her and treat her like she's not an adult. This is a voluntary choice that many women make to let him be the leader but she never gives up her God-given human rights that all human beings have.
In society as a whole, some women are meant to be leaders. It depends on an individual's personality. I think we should be caring more about what's between someone's ears and what's in their heart than what's between someone's legs when it comes to whether we consider them for a leadership position in society or not such as for presidential positions, etc.
Women have a drive to seek out a "bad boy", which whether they consciously think it or not means an alpha male. There is good biological reason for this, but many women are so stupid that they will settle for any POS that acts all tough and "hardcore" and macho and as a result they end up with scum of the earth (time and time again). This is the female equivalent of men who only go for big boobs, blond hair, tiny waists, etc. It's shallow and it's idiotic.
-
Women have a drive to seek out a "bad boy", which whether they consciously think it or not means an alpha male. There is good biological reason for this, but many women are so stupid that they will settle for any POS that acts all tough and "hardcore" and macho and as a result they end up with scum of the earth (time and time again). This is the female equivalent of men who only go for big boobs, blond hair, tiny waists, etc. It's shallow and it's idiotic.
I believe you are making sweeping generalizations because there are many women, especially religious Jewish women, who are seeking a reliable soul-mate and do not seek any kind of 'bad boy'. Although in some cultures that may be the case. I did know an Irish girl who had a fascination with gangster mexicans...
-
I didn't say that every woman wants a dirtbag. I said every woman wants an alpha male or at least a strong, bold, accomplished guy. An alpha male might be a successful firefighter or the CEO of a company; in fact, that's what a smart woman wants. Stupid women want dirtbags.
-
Women have a drive to seek out a "bad boy", which whether they consciously think it or not means an alpha male. There is good biological reason for this, but many women are so stupid that they will settle for any POS that acts all tough and "hardcore" and macho and as a result they end up with scum of the earth (time and time again). This is the female equivalent of men who only go for big boobs, blond hair, tiny waists, etc. It's shallow and it's idiotic.
In both cases I think it depends on the emotional maturity of the person involved. The alpha male is generally going to be the better protector/provider. A woman since she is the one to carry the child can't always be the one to provide her own food and other needs since hard physical labor during pregnancy is dangerous to both mother and child. She's also physically weaker and has historically benefited from being protected from other males by her husband. So yes there is a biological drive to seek out a dominant male. However as you pointed out an immature woman will seek any dominant male while someone with more wisdom will choose someone who will not be cruel to her but will respect her.
A man with very little wisdom might go for the good looking girl and not evaluate whether she will be a good helper when he needs one, a good mother, a good companion, etc.
I think this is one reason why there's so much divorce. People are following pure animal instinct and not allowing the wisdom that God gave them to inform their decisions.
-
Didn't Oscar Wilde play for the other team, what did he know of women anyway. ?!
-
Didn't Oscar Wilde play for the other team, what did he know of women anyway. ?!
Who know's :::D The fact that he was on the so called " other team" might have allowed him to take a more objective approach on the issue :::D
-
I believe you are making sweeping generalizations because there are many women, especially religious Jewish women, who are seeking a reliable soul-mate and do not seek any kind of 'bad boy'. Although in some cultures that may be the case.
Although overall values are different for most religious Jewish women, and more important religious, cultural, sociological factors will be weighed in the type of for-marriage dating they typically do, much more than these would consciously be weighed in a secular setting, I think the same laws of attraction will still apply and the most righteous women will still be attracted to alpha male type qualities. Maybe they will only find the positive manifestations of those qualities appealing rather than the douchey ones due to their societal influences and cultural upbringing. But they still are women attracted to men.
I did know an Irish girl who had a fascination with gangster mexicans...
Lol well they are quite fascinating aren't they? The police also find them fascinating.
-
Many women want cruelty. My sister is a moron that married a real b*stard who is a white supremacist. Makes me mother sick everyday.
-
Cheer up Ron. You're still very young.
I think you need to focus on getting a good education and a good job.
-
But let me add one more thing.
Women can be *very* cruel. With men, they either like someone, or they don't. You generally know where you stand with them. But women's cruelty is much more cunning than that of men.
-
I, myself am sick of Western women. Ron, is young, I am older , in my 30s , and I more or less agree with him.
It just seems that in this day and age women tend to base a man on how acceptable he is to their friends and their own self-image. A man is just a piece of meat with a wallet. I find it very discouraging seeing the number of women on dating sites who say they cannot ever date a guy who they won't look good next to in their heels or that don't have their own home and a college degree. Since, when was love, passion and romance so superficial?
There are men who are pure sexmongers, but just as well, there are women who are pure gold-diggers and sexmongers too. I just find women can be much more cruel, arrogant and childish than men. I also think this is their personal defense mechanism and way of bolstering their own low self-image. Whereas men may try to act macho or cocky to boost their low self-image.
I don't know how to properly assess this problem. It really saddens me about most Jewish ladies in USA though. Most of them refuse to marry a guy in his 30s if he doesn't have a large bank account. I probably will never marry here and I don't want to end up with a shiksa. My Rabbi told me if I marry a shiksa I can never return to the synagogue, even if she converts to Judaism. How's that for pressure? Considering, my Orthodox synagogue is like 90% male and all the women are married or under 18, it doesn't really make life that easy for me. He suggested I go on JDate... I've been on JDate and those superficial, arrogant, self-righteous feminazi women on that site, make me sick. The Rabbi said this because he didn't have any feasible answer for me.
-
Every Jew a 44, why don't you put up a profile on some Jewish dating sites? Or perhaps you can find an in person match maker?
Granted, I'm not one to talk being that I'm older than you and single. But perhaps it's worth a shot. You strike me as a very intelligent and proud Jew. Your posts here are all excellent.
-
It seems to me that two things are being discussed and confused here. One issue people are discussing is 'Alpha male' which is a decription of a male who is a leader. The other is 'cruelty' which in my opinion implies sadism and causing others pain. There is no connection between alpha male and cruelty. That is where the confusion is being introduced.
I believe a man can be an alpha male and not be cruel. An alpha male is one who can lead others through what is called power or money or charisma. One does not need to exhibit 'cruelty' in order to wield such power.
-
EveryJew, ever tried Orthodate?
It's sad really. Women should value a Torah scholar over a secular wealthy fool ignorant of Torah knowledge. Money surely helps but when finding a soulmate, one should look at the person's spiritual potential rather than materialistic ambition. It's angering.
I would suggest to be careful in all Jewish dating sites- or you might end up with a shiksa. Some times are full of non-Jews who think they're Jewish. Like children of conservative and reform "conversions". So even there, it's important to still be vigilant.
-
It seems to me that two things are being discussed and confused here. One issue people are discussing is 'Alpha male' which is a decription of a male who is a leader. The other is 'cruelty' which in my opinion implies sadism and causing others pain. There is no connection between alpha male and cruelty. That is where the confusion is being introduced.
I believe a man can be an alpha male and not be cruel. An alpha male is one who can lead others through what is called power or money or charisma. One does not need to exhibit 'cruelty' in order to wield such power.
All women want an alpha male of some kind. Stupid women want a cruel alpha male and value cruelty.
-
I, myself am sick of Western women. Ron, is young, I am older , in my 30s , and I more or less agree with him.
It just seems that in this day and age women tend to base a man on how acceptable he is to their friends and their own self-image. A man is just a piece of meat with a wallet. I find it very discouraging seeing the number of women on dating sites who say they cannot ever date a guy who they won't look good next to in their heels or that don't have their own home and a college degree. Since, when was love, passion and romance so superficial?
There are men who are pure sexmongers, but just as well, there are women who are pure gold-diggers and sexmongers too. I just find women can be much more cruel, arrogant and childish than men. I also think this is their personal defense mechanism and way of bolstering their own low self-image. Whereas men may try to act macho or cocky to boost their low self-image.
I don't know how to properly assess this problem. It really saddens me about most Jewish ladies in USA though. Most of them refuse to marry a guy in his 30s if he doesn't have a large bank account. I probably will never marry here and I don't want to end up with a shiksa. My Rabbi told me if I marry a shiksa I can never return to the synagogue, even if she converts to Judaism. How's that for pressure? Considering, my Orthodox synagogue is like 90% male and all the women are married or under 18, it doesn't really make life that easy for me. He suggested I go on JDate... I've been on JDate and those superficial, arrogant, self-righteous feminazi women on that site, make me sick. The Rabbi said this because he didn't have any feasible answer for me.
I'm sorry but if your Orthodox rabbi is suggesting you to go on jdate, he is very out of touch with the dating scene and giving you improper advice. Saw you at sinai and frumster are 2 sites that are at least utilized by orthodox Jews and real shadchanim etc. About 1000 times better than the quality of girl you are going to find on jdate but of course its still online dating.
Jdate is not an appropriate place for a religious guy or girl.
You need to try some blind date setups with religious girls, they have different values (in general, there are exceptions. Furthermore, there are tons of late 20's and 30's religious girls who are very eager to get married but all the guys want 20 and younger! So I think you should expand your horizons and keep trying, those girls are out there.
-
The problem is not women, it's men. Allow me to elaborate:
Today's 18 year old typically seeks the antisocial male for thrills.
When she reaches 30 or so years, her maternal instincts kick in. Now is when she is looking for the "geek" or "nerd" type to provide her with a stable environment to rear offspring. If men were smart, they would overwhelmingly reject such females, just as one would reject a car with large mileage. There are several reasons for this:
1) She has probably been with multiple partners at this point and is no longer a virgin
2) By age 50, at least 80 percent of women will have been infected with genital HPV infection (http://hpv.emedtv.com/hpv/hpv-statistics.html)
3) A woman's overall value as she ages decreases, while a male's value increases as he is able to gather more resources. Men age physically much better than women appearance-wise, and retain a good level of fertility significantly longer.
Unfortunately, men have not responded to feminism adequately. Chivalry itself is not an outdated concept, but it is counterproductive to men in the face of aggresive feminism. If a woman has delayed marriage, or is divorced with kids, she should be avoided. What I like tot ell these women is that I don't want to date them, I want to date their daughter. I'm sorry to all the spinsters here in the JTF forum, nothing against you personally, just stating the facts.
Rubystars:
What you have stated is in effect considered hypergamy. It is animal nature to seek the "alpha-male". In several ruminating species, the does seek out the alpha buck and he protects them in what is called a harem. When human females behave like this, it is called hypergamy.
The question is how have the Jewish authorities adapted to Western Feminism... Not very well. Someone above posted that his Rabbi refered him to JDate... There's a double standard here. Many Rabbis demand the old-style marriage for their own children, but refer members of their congregation to the "new" way of doing things (feminist dating). Why do they do this? It's very simple. There's a limited pool of Frum Jewish girls who most likely will not cause too many problems in the duration of their marriage. The shadchanim - or matchmakers - are in effect acting as gatekeepers to this select pool of girls.
The joke will be on them in the future, when even this 'select' pool becomes too westernized for traditional Jewish marriage. In the end, the only viable females will exist in small communities in Israel like Me'Ah She'arim or Bnei Brak.
If you want a sure-bet girl in America who will make a fantastic wife, you're better off with a girl from Naturei Karta than an average JAP. She might be brainwashed, but she's as close to a traditional Jewish girl from old Europe as you're going to get.
-
The problem is not women, it's men. Allow me to elaborate:
Today's 18 year old typically seeks the antisocial male for thrills.
When she reaches 30 or so years, her maternal instincts kick in. Now is when she is looking for the "geek" or "nerd" type to provide her with a stable environment to rear offspring. If men were smart, they would overwhelmingly reject such females, just as one would reject a car with large mileage. There are several reasons for this:
1) She has probably been with multiple partners at this point and is no longer a virgin
2) By age 50, at least 80 percent of women will have been infected with genital HPV infection (http://hpv.emedtv.com/hpv/hpv-statistics.html)
3) A woman's overall value as she ages decreases, while a male's value increases as he is able to gather more resources. Men age physically much better than women appearance-wise, and retain a good level of fertility significantly longer.
Unfortunately, men have not responded to feminism adequately. Chivalry itself is not an outdated concept, but it is counterproductive to men in the face of aggresive feminism. If a woman has delayed marriage, or is divorced with kids, she should be avoided. What I like tot ell these women is that I don't want to date them, I want to date their daughter. I'm sorry to all the spinsters here in the JTF forum, nothing against you personally, just stating the facts.
Rubystars:
What you have stated is in effect considered hypergamy. It is animal nature to seek the "alpha-male". In several ruminating species, the does seek out the alpha buck and he protects them in what is called a harem. When human females behave like this, it is called hypergamy.
The question is how have the Jewish authorities adapted to Western Feminism... Not very well. Someone above posted that his Rabbi refered him to JDate... There's a double standard here. Many Rabbis demand the old-style marriage for their own children, but refer members of their congregation to the "new" way of doing things (feminist dating). Why do they do this? It's very simple. There's a limited pool of Frum Jewish girls who most likely will not cause too many problems in the duration of their marriage. The shadchanim - or matchmakers - are in effect acting as gatekeepers to this select pool of girls.
The joke will be on them in the future, when even this 'select' pool becomes too westernized for traditional Jewish marriage. In the end, the only viable females will exist in small communities in Israel like Me'Ah She'arim or Bnei Brak.
If you want a sure-bet girl in America who will make a fantastic wife, you're better off with a girl from Naturei Karta than an average JAP. She might be brainwashed, but she's as close to a traditional Jewish girl from old Europe as you're going to get.
Any luck finding a young girl from Mea Shearim or Naturei Karta?
-
No, I must be a homosexual.
-
No, I must be a homosexual.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
-
The problem is not women, it's men. Allow me to elaborate:
Today's 18 year old typically seeks the antisocial male for thrills.
Antisocial? I don't know what world you are living in but in America, women definitely do not seek antisocial males. Antisocial males are alone and get no play - and its precisely because they have not cultivated their social skills the way almost every person is capable of doing if they try. So I have no idea what you're talking about.
-
That is a common misconception. The antisocial personality is not someone who shuns society, but someone who exploits it.
This is how DSM-IV classifies tha antisocial:
1. Failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest.
2. Deceitfulness, as indicated by repeated lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure.
3. Impulsivity or failure to plan ahead.
4. Irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults.
5. Reckless disregard for safety of self or others.
6. Consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations.
7. Lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another.
Young women are looking for a guy to show them a good time. Thats why they are in a perpetual drunk stupour engaging in risky sexual behavior until the age of 30, as I stated. That's what Obamacare and the Democrat platform is about. Accomodating this anti-family behavior by providing these "free-spirited" women with "free" birth control and abortion.
The "intellectual" female isn't much better. Rising through the "patriarch" ranks through female affirmative-action, and then settling on the desire to finally marry and have kids, with the end result being a total neglect of their previous pursuit of education and a theft of resources that could have gone towards educating potential male patriarchs. I prefer the drunk slut to the intellectual female, her behavior is more transparent and she is easier to avoid. The "intellectual" female will cleverly bankrupt her husband before ultimately divorcing him and throwing him out on the street like a dog.
-
I appreciate people's dating advice. My Rabbi did also suggest I Saw You On Mt Sinai. Sadly, I just don't have the energy or time to put a profile on dating sites. I work 12+ hours day, plus with cooking , cleaning, chores and keeping my small business alive, I just don't have time, money or resources to be my own Shadchan. I may either marry a shiksa or just stay celibate as I have done for many years. My life is miserably hard and the women in the Western World put endless demands on men that can never be fulfilled.
Yes, I am sure some Orthodox women exist out there, the problem is I am not truly Orthodox. I attend a "Modern Orthodox" synagogue, but I, myself don't exactly make the Orthodox grade. However, I am very traditional and old-fashioned and utterly hate new-age, feminist Western women who more or less expect a man to be their submissive piggy bank/bodyguard who always come 2nd place to their group of gossipy, self-righteous and arrogant friends. So many women these days will obey the demands of their friends long before their husband. Whereas, if a man hangs out with his friends and even spends one night away from his wife, she will be disgruntled and angered that even for that one day she wasn't the center of his universe. I also don't really want to marry a woman in her 30s. Usually, when a woman becomes that old and unmarried, she is either divorced with kids or is too independent and cannot accept having a husband's authority or being the master of the home. Seriously, I have yet to see any 30 something woman in the USA who doesn't have too much chutzpah for me. I am an alpha male and grew up with very domineering mother and grandmother and cannot marry any woman who even closely resembles that.
It's hard enough trying to keep myself alive and help support my parents, then try to find the perfect Jewish American girl and convince her I can support her and win over heart with endless pampering and appeasement. Considering, I am not very frummish, I don't think any of the really devout and loving girls would be interested in me either. Also, I notice that most women in the Orthodox community marry very young and it is very rare to see any men over 25 who are not married in the Orthodox kehillot. Being that I am in mid 30s, these girls would not be so interested as well.
People may not understand my life, but with a Muslim Fascist president in power for over 4 years, it is very hard for a small businessman like me to make ends meet. Most women in this modern world do not want to make sacrifices and expect a man to make endless sacrifices for them. Everything from child-rearing, cooking and cleaning, wining and dining them to bringing in a majority of the income is expected of the men by American women, especially the JAPs (Jewish American Princesses).
Maybe, I sound bitter, but in reality, I am just discouraged and overworked. I am learning how to accept things single. I truly don't want to have non-Jewish children and have a non-Jewish wife, but when you get old, tired and overworked, sometimes your judgment can be altered.
Sadly, I didn't grow up in an Orthodox community or as an Orthodox Jew, so I don't have all the family and friend connections. I grew up all on my own among the gentiles in the Pacific Northwest. I've grew up around rednecks and hippies and also probably was influenced by my surrounding cultures which also separated me further from my liberal, left-wing mainstream Jewish relatives with whom which I have lost contact.
-
That is a common misconception. The antisocial personality is not someone who shuns society, but someone who exploits it.
This is how DSM-IV classifies tha antisocial:
Sounds like a sociopath rather than antisocial.
-
I appreciate people's dating advice. My Rabbi did also suggest I Saw You On Mt Sinai. Sadly, I just don't have the energy or time to put a profile on dating sites. I work 12+ hours day, plus with cooking , cleaning, chores and keeping my small business alive, I just don't have time, money or resources to be my own Shadchan. I may either marry a shiksa or just stay celibate as I have done for many years. My life is miserably hard and the women in the Western World put endless demands on men that can never be fulfilled.
Come on. You don't have time to put up a profile but you have time to date a shiksa? You are lying to yourself and you know it. If you want to do things right, you have to put the effort in. If you truly cared about it, you would put in that effort.
And by the way, some of these orthodox Jewish dating sites have shadchanim on the sites themselves hooking people up for dates that they think are a match. So you would not even have to be your own shadchan. But tell me, when you date secular women or non-Jewish women, aren't you your own shadchan?
I'm quite sure that before I became religious there was no such thing as a shadchan in the secular world. Yeah, 100% sure about that. Unless you subscribe to some service for the extremely wealthy.
Yes, I am sure some Orthodox women exist out there, the problem is I am not truly Orthodox. I attend a "Modern Orthodox" synagogue, but I, myself don't exactly make the Orthodox grade. However, I am very traditional and old-fashioned and utterly hate new-age, feminist Western women
There are women at modern orthodox synagogues who fit the same description. They also may not "make the grade" as you describe it, in certain ways.... And yet they are traditional in a way that you should seek because they match up with you in a way that a reformist chick can never do.
And when you specify your own observance level openly and honestly, a shadchanit will try to match you up with a girl who is similar to you in those respects. That's kind of the point. There is no one, set level.
-
Kahane-Was-Right, I appreciate your advice.. The reason I thought about dating a shiksa, is that they are way more easy going and it wouldn't take the die-hard effort to meet one, considering 99% of people around me are shiksas.. LOL.
Of course, I could always take a trip to the many Reform synagogues in the Pacific Northwest, where women outnumber men and there are way more single women. However, these feminazi women and their new-age, liberal, man-hating mindsets I find utterly repulsive. Personally, I think I would be better off dating some religious Christian woman who could accept me for my Jewish religion than one of these liberal, self-hating Jews who would seek to dominate and enslave me.
Of course, I would ideally want to marry a modern Orthodox woman. But, where the heck are they???!! I mean, I've attended the Chabad and many other modern Orthodox kehillot/shuls in the Pacific Northwest and its always dominated by men. It's almost like Orthodox Judaism is a man's religion. Every synagogue I go to I hardly see any women. At any given time, its 300 men to 30 women. And, every woman there is from an arranged marriage or is under 18 and the daughter of someone. I know Orthodox Judaism puts much more demands on a woman and goes against the modern, feminist, career-minded and sexually liberated woman, hence, why I tend only find single Jewish women at Reform or the so-called Conservative synagogues.
Maybe, when I get some free time, I can see about setting up an account on one of these "Modern orthodox" dating sites. Considering, the scarcity of Orthodox/Modern Orthodox women in the Northwest and the fact that I am older and don't have a high income and the ability to support a more traditional girl, I don't exactly know what makes me so desirable. E.g. One lady at my synagogue came up to me and said she would like to find me a wife. She saw that I dress up in a nice suit and tie at the kehillot on Shabbat. Many don't realize that I find most of my stuff liquidated for like 30-80% off retail prices. So, they may think I have a bit more money than I do. Somebody told her I have my own business. So, after saying she would find me a wife, I told her I am not that wealthy and struggling in my job. After she heard this, she blew me off and doesn't say a word to me anymore. This kind of left a bad taste in my mouth , but also made me a bit aware of the situation. Of course, the Jewish community where I live is more affluent.
I don't know, I feel between a rock in a hard place. Sorry about my kvetching.
-
EveryJew, please don't say that the option would be to date a christian shiksa.
Could there at least be a giyores or a lady going through giyur who is technically still a shiksa but converting....it's happened before. Many Jewish guys meet the right girl who finishes giyur and then they meet and get married- and she becomes a blessing to him. (but NOT the other way around when they meet and think they fall in love and she converts for him which is the wrong way).
But please NOT a christian woman. I think with an attitude like that (that you might date a christian woman) the doors to meeting a Jewish girl close right in your face.
-
I've never considered it or wanted it or even still want it.. But, I am getting old and tired. The doors already were closed at my face..
More likely than not I would never marry a Christian.. I don't want non-Jewish children. I think staying celibate would probably be my best option. I'm sure any relationship with a shiksa would be short lived and come to haunt me in the end. However, things aren't going so well with me now.
I'm sorry to say a truly Kahanist, traditional, semi-Orthodoxish guy like me has a hard time finding a like-minded Jewish girl.
Just take a look at JTF.. Who are the majority of members and people posting?? Mostly Men! It's just the unfortunate way things are. I find lot of females however on reformist or liberal Jewish forums.
-
Now I'm just depressed then :(
-
I've never considered it or wanted it or even still want it.. But, I am getting old and tired. The doors already were closed at my face..
More likely than not I would never marry a Christian.. I don't want non-Jewish children. I think staying celibate would probably be my best option. I'm sure any relationship with a shiksa would be short lived and come to haunt me in the end. However, things aren't going so well with me now.
I'm sorry to say a truly Kahanist, traditional, semi-Orthodoxish guy like me has a hard time finding a like-minded Jewish girl.
Just take a look at JTF.. Who are the majority of members and people posting?? Mostly Men! It's just the unfortunate way things are. I find lot of females however on reformist or liberal Jewish forums.
Do not worry. You do not need a like minded women necessarily. If you can find her, fine, great if not do not despair. Marry, have children and be happy. Women are generally more "leftist" then men before marriage. Once they have children their politics and views chance. Soo do not take it to heart too much.
Also the alluring of shiksas is the Yetzer Hara talking. To marry a Jewess which is a Misswah their is internal opposition to it since it is the right thing to do, while going with a shiksa which in the end will never work out anyway at first seems like it is the easy thing to do, but it will cause you the real problems.
If (since) you really want to get married and by now you should, you should be more aggressive in this search. Why not go to Israel and go searching their. You can and should also contact shadhanim (matchmakers) they can help you out. Their are many single very good Jewish women out there and believe me their situation is much much more troublesome since they have a biological clock where men do not.
-
I've never considered it or wanted it or even still want it.. But, I am getting old and tired. The doors already were closed at my face..
More likely than not I would never marry a Christian.. I don't want non-Jewish children. I think staying celibate would probably be my best option. I'm sure any relationship with a shiksa would be short lived and come to haunt me in the end. However, things aren't going so well with me now.
I'm sorry to say a truly Kahanist, traditional, semi-Orthodoxish guy like me has a hard time finding a like-minded Jewish girl.
Just take a look at JTF.. Who are the majority of members and people posting?? Mostly Men! It's just the unfortunate way things are. I find lot of females however on reformist or liberal Jewish forums.
Don't give up hope!!
-
Every Jew a 44, you sound like great guy. Have you tried going on some kind of Jewish singles vacation?
-
Every Jew a 44, you sound like great guy. Have you tried going on some kind of Jewish singles vacation?
Good idea!! Or a religious common interests group?
-
I'm not sure why there have to be posts alienating half of the entire population.
Sure, there are bad women... and there are also bad men!
And I find the majority of men who blame all their problems on women are either insecure because they have been hurt or are very angry, depressed, jealous, or negative. No woman wants to be with a man who is angry and can't control his temper. No woman wants to be with a man that constantly complains either. But what do the vast majority of these men do? They blame. Do you want to be with a woman that loses her temper or is negative or who nags? Case and point.
On the other hand, a person who is "thankful for the good things he has" and is positive, optimistic, and happy, is a man who has much fewer problems dealing with the opposite sex and is very attractive. You attitude and choices mean everything.
Yes, some women will only be happy with money or the thrill of the chase... and some guys are only happy with the way a woman looks or if she's a trophy to battle their insecurities.
I'd rather see less of these threads that insult women. It goes against the Creator to bash all women or all men.
-
Everybody,
I know it's a Christian phrase but I'm sure you've all heard "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" and I do think that it applies in this case. I don't believe for a moment that a single male JTFer hasn't experienced the situation that Ron and EJA44 describe here in the quest to find a mate. Resist the temptation to criticize them. The number of us male JTFers that are happily married to a quality right-wing woman at the moment can't be more than 10% tops. Instead of lecturing, can't we agree that there is a real cultural problem here and attempt to help them?
I can completely relate to them because I have experienced every kind of horrible luck with women in the book, and then some. I've had girls string me along for more than two years, girls that basically wanted a male sex slave, girls that methodically tried to make me regret having been born because I dared show interest in them... you name it, I've lived through it. Every single one of these women has supposedly been "religious" (Christian), but you sure couldn't tell from the way that they behave. I don't know if Jewish women are the same way, but I don't think any Western females completely escape the new world order's brainwashing.
Basically, the problem is that (just like Jews), females have been targeted for leftist brainwashing and propagandizing in every form and from every movement. To some extent women are simply naturally going to be more left-wing than males, because they are designed to be nurturers, but there is no excuse for how the vast majority of contemporary Western females (secular or not) behave. For over sixty years, Western girls have been getting the message that any manner in which they choose to treat men, including their husbands, is acceptable and permissible because they are "disadvantaged" and deserve to be able to empower themselves by evening the playing field. This is true of communist Deformed feminazi lesbians and it's true of traditional gals that go to church/shul every weekend, read their Bible twice a day and are saving kissing for marriage. The only variable is just how much they've swallowed the NWO agenda.
I think we all know that the single largest reason BHO won (outside of voter fraud) is the female vote. By a whale of a landslide, women of all races overwhelmingly went for the Muslim in the Oval Office because they want the right to mutilate their unborn children at any time, and for any reason, and because they want the taxpayer to foot the bill for their poison hormone pills so that they can slut around. Because of this, G-d is very angry with Western women and lo and behold, you see astronomical rates of female cancer and hideous autoimmune diseases in every part of the world where women have become zombies to this satanic philosophy (I mean that literally, feminazism is rooted in the ethical egoism/selfishness philosophy taught by the satanist Anton LaVey). In the name of liberation and empowerment, women have been trained to be self-haters almost from the time they can walk.
Feminazis worship power and might and force. All women might have a natural gravitation towards an alpha male (and that's not a bad thing by itself), but feminazis serve the god of brutality and sacrifice their children in worship to it (literally). That's why feminazis adore Sh*tlam and are constantly carrying on with absolute slimeballs (even if the men they actually marry are castrated, effeminate, subservient wimps). In case any of you all at JTF think that the solution is as easy as just not dating feminazis, it's not that easy. In the entirety of my life, I've known maybe seven women total that have absorbed no feminist philosophy whatsoever. There are a couple of possible responses to this: (a) hold out for those very few pure, unspoiled women that want no part of this evil, or (b) pursue a woman that's not that corrupted and attempt to un-brainwash her. So far, I have mostly gone with (a), but time and circumstances might force a revisiting of that. I'm not that young anymore and the great majority of women in my age group are divorced and/or have kids, which are dealbreakers for me. However, a woman's stances on abortion and Israel are non-negotiable with me under any circumstances (and this should be true for any man at JTF).
Here are my suggestions.
1: Get intermarriage out of your head. It's so not worth it. The reason that G-d brings men and women together is to serve him better than they would as a single. How can people of two different religions do that? Christianity and Judaism both strictly forbid intermarriage and any Christian woman that would marry you is a self-hating Christian. There is never any excuse for compromising the commandments of G-d, no matter how desperate you are.
2: Force yourself to get out there and mingle and get to know people. If a cute girl at your favorite restaurant catches your eye, chat her up. If there are no women at your synagogue who are eligible, drive around and check several others out and see what the scene there is like. Maybe making aliyah will give you new opportunities. You might want to use a dating site, or several. Yes, they are loaded with phonies, but you just have to be persistent and weed through them until you find some sincere ones. In my experience, maybe about one in twenty women on a dating site is quality material.
3: You keep saying that you want to marry a traditional, religious girl, but that you yourself aren't. Maybe it's time to work on that and draw near to the L-rd. King David said that if we delight ourselves in the L-rd, he will give us the desires of our heart.
4: Whatever you do, don't ever mention that your business is struggling--and certainly not right away. Emphasize the fact that you are working, living on your own, and taking care of yourself. Any righteous female will be content with that. If she insists on wanting to know how much you make, she would not be wife material even if you had the income she desires.
-
I'm not sure why there have to be posts alienating half of the entire population.
Sure, there are bad women... and there are also bad men!
And I find the majority of men who blame all their problems on women are either insecure because they have been hurt or are very angry, depressed, jealous, or negative. No woman wants to be with a man who is angry and can't control his temper. No woman wants to be with a man that constantly complains either. But what do the vast majority of these men do? They blame. Do you want to be with a woman that loses her temper or is negative or who nags? Case and point.
On the other hand, a person who is "thankful for the good things he has" and is positive, optimistic, and happy, is a man who has much fewer problems dealing with the opposite sex and is very attractive. You attitude and choices mean everything.
Yes, some women will only be happy with money or the thrill of the chase... and some guys are only happy with the way a woman looks or if she's a trophy to battle their insecurities.
I'd rather see less of these threads that insult women. It goes against the Creator to bash all women or all men.
I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I'm not bashing women--I just believe that the NWO has targeted them for evil leftist brainwashing in order to subvert and destroy the family and traditional religion.
-
One of the lessons we learned from the Torah this week is that it is as difficult for Hashem to bring together two soul-mates as it was for him to split the sea.
This may reflect on what is being discussed here. Finding a soul-mate is not an easy task, but if we try, and we make compromises then we will find that our mate will arrive.
http://www.kabbalaonline.org/kabbalah/article_cdo/aid/1388261/jewish/First-and-Second-Soul-Mates-201.htm
Hence, when it says, "pairing people is as difficult as the splitting of the Red Sea," it refers to the second soul-mate. However, the understanding of a first and second soul-mate cannot be according to the simple definition since in many instances we see that the second marriage is better than the first.
http://www.torah.org/learning/perceptions/5765/chayeisarah.html
We discussed earlier whether or not women reincarnate like men. Regarding this topic in the first chapter of Sotah (2a) in reference to the posuk, "G-d settles the solitary into a family, He releases those bound in fetters" (Tehillim 68:7); Chazal speak of a first and second soul-mate. Hence, when it says, "Difficult is pairing people like the splitting of the Red Sea," it refers to the second soul-mate. (Sha'ar HaGilgulim, Ch. 20)
-
I have to say I am in agreement with Nafraudi here. As well, I respect Shlomo's post and know why he posted it. However, I think Shlomo is being a bit short-sighted and not seeing how feminism is destroying Western society, including the havoc it is wrecking within the Jewish community. I know it's so easy to blame the man as being the perpetrator and a man who is disgruntled with the current status quo of the female population must be a wife-beater, selfish, hot-tempered, arrogant, sexist, lazy, mean, horrible, etc etc. I find in general, this society pretty much condemns men for everything and women, who are considered an oppressed race, can basically walk away free with murder. Just look at divorce and child support laws in this country. I had Jewish friend who had a million dollar house and good income which he lost when his sexy supermodel wife sued him in court and made a false report about him beating her, even though he never laid a finger on her. Now, he must pay half his income in child support and the house is hers and her new husband, who makes more money than he does.
I agree that being an angry, mean, bitter man is not attractive to women. However, Shlomo, and anyone else who knew me woudl know I am kind, selfless, compassionate and usually not too angry.. Although, every Kahanist has to have a bit of anger, especially in this day and age >:(.. However, I stand by what I say and I am glad other people can identify with me. I would encourage Shlomo and others to see for themselves the lack of women involved in Orthodox communities here in the Northwest. Anywhere, without large numbers families who were born into the religion will probably face this dilemma.
BTW, I never meant that I wanted an ultra-Orthodox religious girl. I want a girl who is traditional and moral, but not necessarily ultra Orthodox, because I am not that way. If I was so ultra-religious, then perhaps, it would be a bit easier to find a more religious woman, but I am not. And, I don't forsee myself become more Orthodox any time soon. I just never was brought up that way and I fall short of it.. I'm somewhere in the middle religiously, which means I am too religious for liberal new-age Jewish girls, but not religious enough for the Charedim/Chassidic groups of women.
I will try to look for a solution when I can get free time. Right now I am working 12-14 hours a day and trying to keep myself and parents heads above water. So, despite the fact I would love to find a good-hearted and respectful Jewish girl, I very simply don't have the time. And, since nobody from my Jewish community will help, I am pretty much all on my own.
Going to Israel now is not an option, both financially, but also for other reasons. Turning in all my guns, sacrificing my job and living in poverty in Israel under a ultra-leftist government (by my standard) government, isn't exactly enticing to me. Not that America isn't on the same track, but at least there is some hope for the USA.
If I can succeed in my business I will buy property in Jerusalem. I woudln't mind living there if I had the flexibility to leave if things go South. E.g, having my home bulldozed so it can be given to islamonazi terrorists.
-
I have to say I am in agreement with Nafraudi here. As well, I respect Shlomo's post and know why he posted it. However, I think Shlomo is being a bit short-sighted and not seeing how feminism is destroying Western society, including the havoc it is wrecking within the Jewish community.
I agree that being an angry, mean, bitter man is not attractive to women. However, Shlomo, and anyone else who knew me woudl know I am kind, selfless, compassionate and usually not too angry.. Although, every Kahanist has to have a bit of anger, especially in this day and age >:(.. However, I stand by what I say and I am glad other people can identify with me. I would encourage Shlomo and others to see for themselves the lack of women involved in Orthodox communities here in the Northwest. Anywhere, without large numbers families
BTW, I never meant that I wanted an ultra-Orthodox religious girl. I want a girl who is traditional and moral, but not necessarily ultra Orthodox, because I am not that way. If I was so ultra-religious, then perhaps, it would be a bit easier to find a more religious woman, but I am not. And, I don't forsee myself become more Orthodox any time soon. I just never was brought up that way and I fall short of it..
I will try to look for a solution when I can get free time. Right now I am working 12-14 hours a day and trying to keep myself and parents heads above water. So, despite the fact I would love to find a good-hearted and respectful Jewish girl, I very simply don't have the time. And, since nobody from my Jewish community will help, I am pretty much all on my own.
Going to Israel now is not an option, both financially, but also for other reasons. Turning in all my guns, sacrificing my job and living in poverty in Israel under a ultra-leftist government (by my standard) government, isn't exactly enticing to me. Not that America isn't on the same track, but at least there is some hope for the USA.
If I can succeed in my business I will buy property in Jerusalem. I woudln't mind living there if I had the flexibility to leave if things go South. E.g, having my home bulldozed so it can be given to islamonazi terrorists.
Is that what this post is about? Feminism? No, not the original post, it said that women crave cruelty from men... That is not feminsm, that is misogyny.
And then the discussion came to be about 'alpha males'... Which then I explained that 'alpha males' do not need to be cruel in order to be leaders.
Now it is claiming that all women are femism, and as a result all women should be dumped on?
I sometimes wonder about some of you guys...
-
I misread the first post title.. Oops.. Thought it read women were cruel to their men.. Dang.. I feel stupid now.. I think women do crave cruel bad-boys in their younger years. Well, many more modern girls do, IMO.
-
The man woman dynamic has always been the most difficult aspect of society.
Various societies have dealt with it one way or another. In India today and other places they have arranged marriages, which in some ways is a practical system. But in other societies such a system would not work. In todays American society it is difficult to find the right kind of woman. I know this from experience, and from the experiences of those around me. But I do also know some religious Jews who have great marriages, with many beautiful kids, and blessings which the other nations probrobly don't know.
I pray that everyone looking for their soul mate finds them.
-
Is that what this post is about? Feminism? No, not the original post, it said that women crave cruelty from men... That is not feminsm, that is misogyny.
Women do want to be dominated by a solid, strong man by instinct. Trashy, brainwashed women want to be abused by men. Some women only date batterers no matter what because it turns them on. Most women today have been brainwashed into self-hatred to some degree.
-
Women do want to be dominated by a solid, strong man by instinct. Trashy, brainwashed women want to be abused by men. Some women only date batterers no matter what because it turns them on. Most women today have been brainwashed into self-hatred to some degree.
The important thing to remember is that we are talking about 'some women' and not all. I will not argue that there are some who like this kind of stuff. I have witnessed it myself. But I just want to keep a kernel of reason in the discussion by pointing out it is not all of them. Indeed it may be on the rise due to the decline in moral values (as a result of the sexual revolution of the 60s, etc.).
-
Even women on Frumster aren't that great. Most of them just ignore the men that write to them or just send the automatic rejection message. And then there is SuperTova which is free but not all Orthodox but I find the same people on there that I've seen on Frumster in the past. I guess the women are too picky and that's why you see them on all the sites never satisfied.
In my community, the men don't talk to women. Most people my age move away when they get married and most of the people that attend synagogue events are my parents' age. Aside from the rabbi, I think I'm the youngest (I'm 31 and he's 32.). There are a few people my age but are all married. The kids of the older members usually move away to yeshiva or seminary. Only when I'm here in Israel do I interact with women my age (Although they're like 10 years younger.). They're here for the year. I was in their place 11 years ago at Hebrew University. In Jerusalem, all the young Jews hang out and you can hear English everywhere.
Jaffa Street is a pedestrian mall now like Ben Yehuda St. but with trains in the middle of the street and now everyone wallks around late at night. In the US, it would not be safe because of you know who but here all the stores late at night are kosher and open and all the young people are Jews. Maybe visiting Jews in a religious program have the best chance of finding someone while in Israel. The communities in the US usually discourage young men and women from interacting.
-
Even women on Frumster aren't that great. Most of them just ignore the men that write to them or just send the automatic rejection message. And then there is SuperTova which is free but not all Orthodox but I find the same people on there that I've seen on Frumster in the past. I guess the women are too picky and that's why you see them on all the sites never satisfied.
In my community, the men don't talk to women. Most people my age move away when they get married and most of the people that attend synagogue events are my parents' age. Aside from the rabbi, I think I'm the youngest (I'm 31 and he's 32.). There are a few people my age but are all married. The kids of the older members usually move away to yeshiva or seminary. Only when I'm here in Israel do I interact with women my age (Although they're like 10 years younger.). They're here for the year. I was in their place 11 years ago at Hebrew University. In Jerusalem, all the young Jews hang out and you can hear English everywhere.
Jaffa Street is a pedestrian mall now like Ben Yehuda St. but with trains in the middle of the street and now everyone wallks around late at night. In the US, it would not be safe because of you know who but here all the stores late at night are kosher and open and all the young people are Jews. Maybe visiting Jews in a religious program have the best chance of finding someone while in Israel. The communities in the US usually discourage young men and women from interacting.
In my community, the men never talk to you unless they're your first cousins or your uncles. It's just not considered proper with the Mashadi Jews of my generation. I can't even tell you how many weddings I've been to where I've been seated at tables with single men. They're usually at one end of the table and the women at the other end. They never even just say "hello." If anything my father would say to me "Lisa, so and so, who's related to so and so, saw you at a party and wants to go out with you."
And then my father will be like "go out with his two, three, four, five, ten times and you will get to like him." But to me, that's just leading the guy on.
Another thing is, and I'm sure I'll get criticized by some of the guys on this thread about it, but I was born and raised in America. I never really grew up in the Iranian Jewish community. So if a guy won't even just say hello to me at a party, then that's not a good sign.
Then my mother always says, marriage is work (never anything about loving the man, wanting to spend time with him or enjoying his company.)
-
I'm not sure why there have to be posts alienating half of the entire population.
Sure, there are bad women... and there are also bad men!
And I find the majority of men who blame all their problems on women are either insecure because they have been hurt or are very angry, depressed, jealous, or negative. No woman wants to be with a man who is angry and can't control his temper. No woman wants to be with a man that constantly complains either. But what do the vast majority of these men do? They blame. Do you want to be with a woman that loses her temper or is negative or who nags? Case and point.
On the other hand, a person who is "thankful for the good things he has" and is positive, optimistic, and happy, is a man who has much fewer problems dealing with the opposite sex and is very attractive. You attitude and choices mean everything.
Yes, some women will only be happy with money or the thrill of the chase... and some guys are only happy with the way a woman looks or if she's a trophy to battle their insecurities.
I'd rather see less of these threads that insult women. It goes against the Creator to bash all women or all men.
Shlomo, as usual, you hit the nail right on the head!!! Perfectly squarely and on the head. No one wants to listen to anyone's bit**ing about one sex being all bad and one almost all good or vice-versa.
Lastly, when am I going to be able to sign back in to my account? :::D I mean it though!
-
I misread the first post title.. Oops.. Thought it read women were cruel to their men.. Dang.. I feel stupid now.. I think women do crave cruel bad-boys in their younger years. Well, many more modern girls do, IMO.
EveryJewa44,
I stopped reading what you wrote after you described his wife as a supermodel (not out of disrespect of course), but look at your friend's values. He sold his soul for looks, something that is skin deep. Now he feels crushed and emotionally taken advantage of. Well maybe he should have looked a little deeper first. I don't know how your friend looks physically, but if he wasn't her equal physically and I'm thinking he definitely was not, and he thought he bought himself a "trophy," he was very childlike and immature in the way he went about looking for a wife.
-
I know a right wing girl. No girl wants a [censored] pushover that won't take the lead and make decisions, or a needy wart that just calls and shows up endlessly. And it's usually trashy girls or ones that got raped/ didn't have a dad or had an abusive one that liked to be controlled, but if all you can get is those girls, good luck, but I'm not in the market for damaged goods.
Women don't like to feel like cattle, or the sun-god of the African tribes, they just like a challenge. If you're gonna be this phony boob that accepts every imperfection they have without a second thought because you're just so happy to have sex, like, there's no game, no drama, no improvement, nothing because the man's not challenging her, she's gonna walk plain and simple. If you control her and lock up her life, well then she might get comfortable or be afriad of change that involves going through you, and she'll hate it, she'll just do it for her love of you and keep hoping you should change. If you're not planning on having an open harem day for the new mail-in invitees and changing your name to Wauhhhh Ibn Pedophile, then learn the rules.
1. Do not let a women know that you are a looser that will fall madly in love with her over a wink and do anything for her. She will use you.
Notes: Gentlemanly behavior is great, but not how your mom taught it to you. There are many things that girls say annoy them that are insta-keys to their reptile minds (dividing the brain in 3 layers).
2. Make a women feel that she must be good enough for you, not the other way around. This will happen automatically as a doctor, or if your bicep is 3/4 the size of her head (approx) and you have min two inches of ab sticking out. Otherwise, when asking her questions (and this is what the majority of early conversations must be, not necessarily questions, but talk about her; once as she knows all your stories or enough to think she has you figured out, she will leave you, as a general rule. Money and/or muscle of course changes everything usually.
3. Walk women. Don't just buy them things and take them to a movie. It shows you can stay comfortable.
4. Be comfortable. When you act like this is a big bad game you have to beat and one slip of the tongue (some things can screw you, be reasonable, but just because you aren't perfect, doesn't mean you have to beat yourself up)
last time i threw a little sex ed bone, i got major denunciations, even if this is a reputable area of neuroscience. If you want more, write it, or go get an arranged marriage or something.
Making a woman feel like she needs to be good enough for you is a recipe to give most women anxiety and will make them feel worse than they already feel. They shouldn't feel like you're some sap or a doormat, but making women feel that they have to earn your respect the hard way, I think is a bad way to go. Insecurity breeds insecurity. Let the person be herself. If you don't like her, dump her. I'm surprised (on this forum) how much negativism there is on this subject.
-
Nobody has even tried to refute the most singularly basic observation I've made here: Western women are socialized to believe that selfishness is acceptable and even laudable. Feminism has more in common with LaVeyist Satanism than any other single philosophy on earth. This is equally true of Marxist feminism and libertarian (Randist) feminism.
--A promiscuous man is a player or cad, but a promiscuous woman is sexually empowered (i.e. Sex in the City).
--A traditionalist man is a patriarchal sexist, but a traditionalist woman is values-oriented.
--A man who is serious about marriage and aggressively pursues it is desperate, but a woman who does is proactive and commitment-oriented.
--A man who never wants to marry is immature or fears commitment, but a woman who refuses to commit is liberated.
--A man who marries for money is a gigolo, but a woman who does has standards and self-respect.
I could go on and on and on... you all know this is true, whether or not you want to admit it.
-
Nobody has even tried to refute the most singularly basic observation I've made here: Western women are socialized to believe that selfishness is acceptable and even laudable. Feminism has more in common with LaVeyist Satanism than any other single philosophy on earth. This is equally true of Marxist feminism and libertarian (Randist) feminism.
--A promiscuous man is a player or cad, but a promiscuous woman is sexually empowered (i.e. Sex in the City).
--A traditionalist man is a patriarchal sexist, but a traditionalist woman is values-oriented.
--A man who is serious about marriage and aggressively pursues it is desperate, but a woman who does is proactive and commitment-oriented.
--A man who never wants to marry is immature or fears commitment, but a woman who refuses to commit is liberated.
--A man who marries for money is a gigolo, but a woman who does has standards and self-respect.
I could go on and on and on... you all know this is true, whether or not you want to admit it.
I really disagree with this. Maybe there is a generation gap. Most educated people do not look at the positions that you describe for the woman as being somehow heroic and revolutionary.
A woman who sleeps around is at risk for a higher likelihood of getting an STD. This can later interfere with future fertility. Whoever is telling her that lie is doing her a real disservice.
A woman who refuses to get married to the right man is an idiot or has emotional problems, in which case, no man is the 'right' man
A woman who marries for money is a prostitute, she's whoring herself out for the almighty dollar.
A man who marries for looks only is an idiot, someone who never learned how to control the little head with the big head, particularly for monumental decisions such as marriage.
A promiscuous woman is not empowered, she is desperate for affection or just enjoys a real good time, but either way she loses because she cheapens her own worth by giving it a way or putting herself at risk for sexual encounters gone awry, more than her fair share of worries about unwanted pregnancies or diseases.
A man who does this has to keep proving to the world and to himself how desirable he is. After a certain age, that kind of behavior is the butt of jokes from everyone. I know a man like this at work. He's incredibly nice, but he's a fool, giving it to any female who makes him feel like a man. The workplace laughs at him, instead of pitying him
These are just a few examples. Walk to your own beat, forget the rest. I know it's easier said than done. When I was your age, my parents would have said what I said to you, and I know it wouldn't have meant much. Be better than me, try to take some of it in
-
Are the double standards that I described stupid? Yes. Are they extremely commonplace? Unfortunately. Are religious women immune to them? Hell no. Most have bought into the culture of selfishness to some degree.
The cold, hard truth is that we have a couple generations of females on our hands that believe they are owed life handed to them on a silver platter because they don't have a penis. It's no different from what our mmhmm brothas and sistas believe. They believe that they deserve any job that they want regardless of how qualified they are, free contraception so that they can sleep around without any consequence (and many of these women don't want kids period, so they don't care about their fertility later on), the right to kill their unborn children because they are an inconvenience to them, and a redistribution of income if they don't earn the exact same thing as a man. I wish it weren't this way, but the great majority of Western women are like this, regardless of whether or not they are secular. In fact, religious women can sometimes be even worse because they believe that they are extra-worthy in G-d's eyes.
-
Are the double standards that I described stupid? Yes. Are they extremely commonplace? Unfortunately. Are religious women immune to them? Hell no. Most have bought into the culture of selfishness to some degree.
The cold, hard truth is that we have a couple generations of females on our hands that believe they are owed life handed to them on a silver platter because they don't have a penis. It's no different from what our mmhmm brothas and sistas believe. They believe that they deserve any job that they want regardless of how qualified they are, free contraception so that they can sleep around without any consequence (and many of these women don't want kids period, so they don't care about their fertility later on), the right to kill their unborn children because they are an inconvenience to them, and a redistribution of income if they don't earn the exact same thing as a man. I wish it weren't this way, but the great majority of Western women are like this, regardless of whether or not they are secular. In fact, religious women can sometimes be even worse because they believe that they are extra-worthy in G-d's eyes.
You're attracting the wrong kind of women. The answer is to look inward as to why that is. I do not mean that rudely. I can tell you are really struggling with this and that is to be respected not ridiculed
-
112,
How old are you?
-
LKZ,
It's like my grandmother (OBM) used to say, "pretty fades, dumb is forever." Watch for what you ask for. I'm glad you're 21 and having a good time, but just remember you wont be such hot stuff forever and there's a price to pay for all of these intricate little deceptions going on ;D. I'm not laughing at you LKZ. It's sort of charming in the way that young people can be, but you're closely approaching the age where it will no longer be charming, but marginally sociopathic.
-
Another thing is, and I'm sure I'll get criticized by some of the guys on this thread about it, but I was born and raised in America. I never really grew up in the Iranian Jewish community. So if a guy won't even just say hello to me at a party, then that's not a good sign.
Then my mother always says, marriage is work (never anything about loving the man, wanting to spend time with him or enjoying his company.)
1) Maybe he is shy.
2) Your mother is correct, that is why that older generations have and had better marriage rates. They got married, did not even have high expectations and thought about "what can I do to make this marriage work". Today's day and age people have much higher expectations and do not want to put as much work into the relationship. I'm talking in general both for men and women.
3) You do not necessarily need to "love" the person, especially not in the way "love" is defined these days. Real love grows with time and sacrifice. That comes after marriage. Not saying you do not need to be attracted, that also is very bad if not, but real lasting long term love comes with time effort, and sacrifice.
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-flBQOzaa0
-
You're attracting the wrong kind of women. The answer is to look inward as to why that is. I do not mean that rudely. I can tell you are really struggling with this and that is to be respected not ridiculed
A big part of it is that I have high standards in terms of intellect, reflection on life decisions, etc. and intelligent, university-educated women are more likely to be feministic than average. There are women that aren't like this, but they tend to be less intelligent and that is a turnoff. A wife is not just a sex partner to me. I want a mental soulmate and it's harder than snot to find that.
-
Some women want to save men, ever thought of that ...
I was the bad boy type that scored the high school hottie.
She was the best thing that happened to me.
She just wanted a bad-boy; that she wanted to "save you" is what she told her friends so as to seem more acceptable.
-
A big part of it is that I have high standards in terms of intellect, reflection on life decisions, etc. and intelligent, university-educated women are more likely to be feministic than average. There are women that aren't like this, but they tend to be less intelligent and that is a turnoff. A wife is not just a sex partner to me. I want a mental soulmate and it's harder than snot to find that.
Are you DBF?
-
Anyways, sex is less of a sin than masturbation, so I figure I'm avoiding that sin and the sin of brutally killing every annying person in my office and then throwing it all the way to crush the white house if I did neither. Samson did it, I'm just not a sap, and have extreme trust issues from my... well life but youth too.
Wrong! Sex outside of marriage is sin/immoral. Look at the sin of Onan, How Hashem struck him dead for using a woman for sexual gratification/pleasure who he didn't plan to marry. Any form of fornication is looked badly upon. You sleep around with girls outside marriage for what reason? We are Jews, an honorable and pure race of people, we are not like others who can pervert and amuse ourselves with carnal pleasures.
Why are Jewish people perverting themselves and lowering their moral standards? I hate premarital sex and think it is wrong.
Actually , I am just so sick of this modern society and the loose morals. Good luck finding a Jewish girl in the USA who is a virgin in this day and age. Torah, backed up by many Rabbinical scholars, even says that a Jewish woman who is not a virgin, except for cases of divorce or other legal means of her having previous sexual relations, should be put to death. From what I have been told, most Rabbinical scholars agree that a marriage with a girl who is not a virgin is not legal. I would also extend this to a man as well, as with the example in Bereshit 38 with Onan.
Once upon a time, Jewish people fell in love, they didn't need to have one night affairs that they could go brag about to their friends later. Now, there is all this BS to find a Jewish girl , because most Jewish women in the USA are self-hating feminazis. And, yes, many Jewish guys have decided to go and sleep around with shiksas, because finding a even-headed, kind and nurturing Jewish girl who isn't dominating or sucking his blood financially has been a real chore.
I really agree with a lot of what Nafraudi said. It is like he took the words out of my own mouth.
Pardon me, I shouldn't get so emotional about this subject. Anyway, celibacy helps me not have to worry about all the drama and insantiy, divorces, alimony, once a week or month visits of my own children, loss of firearm rights and all the hardships I may face if I decided to get married in a Western country.
P.S. Lisa, I find that fascinating you are a Persian Jew. I have had one Persian Jewish friend who use to sell me beautiful hand made rugs. I am intrigued to learn more about the culture of Persian Jews. They are hard to find in the Northwest, but I actually met one at the Chabad once.
-
Of course, I would ideally want to marry a modern Orthodox woman. But, where the heck are they???!! I mean, I've attended the Chabad and many other modern Orthodox kehillot/shuls in the Pacific Northwest and its always dominated by men. It's almost like Orthodox Judaism is a man's religion. Every synagogue I go to I hardly see any women. At any given time, its 300 men to 30 women. And, every woman there is from an arranged marriage or is under 18 and the daughter of someone. I know Orthodox Judaism puts much more demands on a woman and goes against the modern, feminist, career-minded and sexually liberated woman, hence, why I tend only find single Jewish women at Reform or the so-called Conservative synagogues.
The question is, when are you going to synagogue? If it's during the week, don't expect to see women there. Women basically only show up for yom tov morning davening or Shabbat morning davening (saturday morning). Otherwise you should expect to see primarily men at the shul if not entirely men! Davening requirement is less strict for women so they typically don't show up for shul except for Sat morning or Yom Tov morning.
The reason the Deform places seem like they are packed to the brim with women is because the men don't go (so that raises the female:male ratio) and the women go because they think synagogue is the only thing there is to the religion (since they don't practice mitzvot such as kashrut, shabbat, family purity, etc). It's a christianized and feminazified "religion" they follow where praying in the deform synagogue is their path to glory and power over men.
Another tip I can offer is to try to be a guest for Shabbat meals at the homes of members of your synagogue. Sometimes if you impress them and they like you and you've been there a few times (or sometimes even just once) - if they find out you are looking for a wife, they will think of some girl they want to set you up with or contact their friend who knows some girls who are looking. I can't tell you how many homes I've been in where they ask if I'm dating and then say they want to set me up with someone or they know of girls who are looking.
-
Lisa just reminded me of a good joke I heard...
Once there was a girl whos parents wanted her to get married. She would always put off dating or marriage, so her father said to her one day: "I am going to bring you two suitors, you will go out with both of them, and then you must decide which of them you want to marry". One week later, A Moroccan arrived one night to take this girl on a date, the next night, a Persian suitor took her out. A week later, her father approached her and asked her if she had chosen which one she wanted to marry.
"The Moroccan", she replied. "Why's that?" he asked. She replied: "The Moroccan may beat me to death, but the Persian will starve me to death."
-
Lisa just reminded me of a good joke I heard...
Once there was a girl whos parents wanted her to get married. She would always put off dating or marriage, so her father said to her one day: "I am going to bring you two suitors, you will go out with both of them, and then you must decide which of them you want to marry". One week later, A Moroccan arrived one night to take this girl on a date, the next night, a Persian suitor took her out. A week later, her father approached her and asked her if she had chosen which one she wanted to marry.
"The Moroccan", she replied. "Why's that?" he asked. She replied: "The Moroccan may beat me to death, but the Persian will starve me to death."
Translation for those of us not from either culture...
-
Let me tell you guys something about women and virginity. Unless you're dealing with Orthodox Jews or religious conservative Christians, women who are virgins after age 20, or even sooner are seen as damaged goods. I've experienced this first hand with dates and gynecologists. Most average men (Jews included, I hate to say) want a woman who has been broken in properly (pun intended).
In her excellent book "A Return To Modesty" author Wendy Shalit wrote about a young girl whose boyfriend lost interest in her when he found out she was a virgin.
Also there was an article a while back on Salon.com about this same topic. Women in their 20's whose boyfriends learned of their virginity dumped them.
Now if you really want more examples, I'll be happy to go into detail.
-
A big part of it is that I have high standards in terms of intellect, reflection on life decisions, etc. and intelligent, university-educated women are more likely to be feministic than average. There are women that aren't like this, but they tend to be less intelligent and that is a turnoff. A wife is not just a sex partner to me. I want a mental soulmate and it's harder than snot to find that.
Just keep dating, you will get there. If you feel on the inside you are ready to meet the woman that you will commit to, then it will happen. Honestly, I'm not sure you are ready. I dont know you very well, but I think you are letting bitterness guide you. In order to find love, you need a free heart and that is a challenge, especially in this era, but it's not impossible
-
Let me tell you guys something about women and virginity. Unless you're dealing with Orthodox Jews or religious conservative Christians, women who are virgins after age 20, or even sooner are seen as damaged goods. I've experienced this first hand with dates and gynecologists. Most average men (Jews included, I hate to say) want a woman who has been broken in properly (pun intended).
In her excellent book "A Return To Modesty" author Wendy Shalit wrote about a young girl whose boyfriend lost interest in her when he found out she was a virgin.
Also there was an article a while back on Salon.com about this same topic. Women in their 20's whose boyfriends learned of their virginity dumped them.
Now if you really want more examples, I'll be happy to go into detail.
This sounds about right for modern men, for right or for wrong. They want someone to show them to have a really good time, whupaaaa! Ergo, my many male friends who are just about dying to have sex with good looking women in their 40s or fifties, they are in their very late twenties and early thirties. They also want to have sex with women their age to
-
Let me tell you guys something about women and virginity. Unless you're dealing with Orthodox Jews or religious conservative Christians, women who are virgins after age 20, or even sooner are seen as damaged goods. I've experienced this first hand with dates and gynecologists. Most average men (Jews included, I hate to say) want a woman who has been broken in properly (pun intended).
In her excellent book "A Return To Modesty" author Wendy Shalit wrote about a young girl whose boyfriend lost interest in her when he found out she was a virgin.
Also there was an article a while back on Salon.com about this same topic. Women in their 20's whose boyfriends learned of their virginity dumped them.
Now if you really want more examples, I'll be happy to go into detail.
You mean the gynecologist is telling you what men want?
-
You mean the gynecologist is telling you what men want?
No, it was a male gynecologist recommended by a girl I used to know in college. So he started asking about what I was doing for birth control, and I was in my early 20's at the time. When I told him I was a virgin, his whole expression darkened, as if I just killed his entire family, then he demanded angrily "You're what????!!!??
-
Translation for those of us not from either culture...
I'm of Iranian Jewish ancestry and even I don't get the joke either.
-
Well, as a virgin I would be glad to be dumped by a pervert who is turned off by the fact a woman doesn't sleep around. A man who dumps this kind of woman just because she is a virgin deserves to keep going out with those as vulgar as him.
-
The reason the Deform places seem like they are packed to the brim with women is because the men don't go (so that raises the female:male ratio) and the women go because they think synagogue is the only thing there is to the religion (since they don't practice mitzvot such as kashrut, shabbat, family purity, etc). It's a christianized and feminazified "religion" they follow where praying in the deform synagogue is their path to glory and power over men.
Obviously Deform "Judaism" is a (femi)Nazi religion, but what do you mean about it being "Christianized"? Biblical Christianity is diametrically opposed to feminazism and affirms that men are the spiritual leaders and the leaders of the marriage.
-
I once had a guy try and and psychoanalyze his way into a one night stand with me. I divulged more than I should have. This was a long long time ago and I wasn't good at speaking up. Then he was like "you mean you're sexually inexperienced?"
I once had this other guy that I met on Jdate say right to my face over dinner that I needed to have a few nights of sex with a nerdy guy to "loosen me up."
-
Obviously Deform "Judaism" is a (femi)Nazi religion, but what do you mean about it being "Christianized"? Biblical Christianity is diametrically opposed to feminazism and affirms that men are the spiritual leaders and the leaders of the marriage.
I think I can also answer that one. From my experience in deformed temples, I can tell you that there's practically no Hebrew and that there's some kind of organ playing, which makes it seem like a church. The thing is Orthodox Synagogues don't use organs. Nor do they use microphones.
Also I think what JTF Enthusiast was referring to was the current liberal Christian denominations.
-
I once had a guy try and and psychoanalyze his way into a one night stand with me. I divulged more than I should have. This was a long long time ago and I wasn't good at speaking up. Then he was like "you mean you're sexually inexperienced?"
I once had this other guy that I met on Jdate say right to my face over dinner that I needed to have a few nights of sex with a nerdy guy to "loosen me up."
More like he wanted YOU to loosen him up. what a projection! Some people have no game whatsoever
-
I think I can also answer that one. From my experience in deformed temples, I can tell you that there's practically no Hebrew and that there's some kind of organ playing, which makes it seem like a church. The thing is Orthodox Synagogues don't use organs. Nor do they use microphones.
Also I think what JTF Enthusiast was referring to was the current liberal Christian denominations.
Not me, I think that was Kahane was right.
-
In light of all this discussion, I think women should be using birth control and thinking like men, absolutely. If I had a daughter, I'd want her armed for the young studs of America like LKZ: birth control, diaphragm, mace, an edge weapon, the whole shebang :::D
-
I have never seen the slightest bit of evidence that guys find virginity in a woman to be a turn off or see it as a defect. I'm quite sure the exact opposite of what Lisa is saying is true. Or maybe I'm missing something.
-
I have never seen the slightest bit of evidence that guys find virginity in a woman to be a turn off or see it as a defect. I'm quite sure the exact opposite of what Lisa is saying is true.
I think she's right, especially in a city like New York where everyone is trying to one up their last sexual experience by the prospect-laden potential of their next sexual experience :::D :::D
-
Lisa: Remember that "easy" women are self-haters. They behave like they do because they are desperate to be accepted by the world. Who does that sound like?
And yes, it was KWRBT who said that.
JTFE: In my experience, the specter of male virginity (rare as it is) is a moderate to significant turnoff even for religious women. A woman who plans to only be with one sexual partner for life generally wants the guy to have some level of experience or expertise.
-
Lisa: Remember that "easy" women are self-haters. They behave like they do because they are desperate to be accepted by the world. Who does that sound like?
And yes, it was KWRBT who said that.
JTFE: In my experience, the specter of male virginity (rare as it is) is a moderate to significant turnoff even for religious women. A woman who plans to only be with one sexual partner for life generally wants the guy to have some level of experience or expertise.
Yeah of course, I agree.
-
Lisa: Remember that "easy" women are self-haters. They behave like they do because they are desperate to be accepted by the world. Who does that sound like?
And yes, it was KWRBT who said that.
JTFE: In my experience, the specter of male virginity (rare as it is) is a moderate to significant turnoff even for religious women. A woman who plans to only be with one sexual partner for life generally wants the guy to have some level of experience or expertise.
Could that be a Jewish person, mmhmm :::D
-
Feminazism is as wicked a cancer as Sh*tlam and every church and synagogue must purge it by force from its ranks before it eats them alive. Remember that "religious" women are often the most devoted practitioners of this satanic (literally) religion.
-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaVeyan_Satanism
-
This post is showing me that you are not ready DBF.
-
http://boards.askmen.com/showthread.php?56041-virgin-females-turn-on-turn-off
Warning: graphic language.
-
http://boards.askmen.com/showthread.php?56041-virgin-females-turn-on-turn-off
Warning: graphic language.
Most men, or at least a very large number, want a virgin woman. Few women, religious or not, want a virgin man. Some will accept one and that's about it.
-
Good thing I plan to marry upwards of 1000 women. I intend to marry every girl I sleep with. I test that resolve in them by telling them there's another girl that I want to share the beauty we have together with. They always leave, but eventually I'll find a couple cool ones, and we can move forward from there.
The bossy ones I can handle no problem, and financial drain within reason is expected.
This is not about perverting myself, amusement, or even pleasure. It's about staying sane and sounding like an extra big hotshot when I sell machinery to people that make millions or billions more dollars than me. And of course to marry a thousand girls, I get some to convert if it comes down to it. So sanity, money and marriage. Seems alright to me anyways. And yes, virgins are rare and valuable.
You know though, no sex before marriage and all that purity stuff except for with your wife I agree with, I think that's the way to go. In our society, however, I first off would never have any male friends if I said I was a virgin. At least not ones that wouldn't pee themselves in a corner if I got into a fight with hippies or druggies. Also, girls are majorly turned off by it. They are chasing an experience, and if you tell them that will be a crappy experience and you will likely become an emotional dependent, they won't bother with you. If that was the way it was, and you both became emotionally dependent on each other (within reason) after sex for the first time and were married, that'd be great, 1000 virgins is the dream of dreams. And it would also be nice to have a girl that cares about me for more than what's in my head and arms, even nothing to do with me, just loves me because we're together, sure, it's a dream.
I do not kid myself to think that it is any more than that, though I never loose hope, and still get hardcore burned when I give into it. Here I'm letting of a little toxin, but every girl I trusted has stabbed me in the back, every girl I've given everything to has ran, and every girl I've really loved decided she could use me, and either I had to get rid of her or she left me. Perpahs this is all part of G-d's hand in my destiny to have at least one person in my family marry a Jew after thousands (more than 1000 that I can trace) of years of 100%, but idk, in honesty the only Jewish girls I ever met were on my Israel trip as I am not part really of the Jewish community here, and they all hated me after I said to one friend that we should not have to pay for gays to marry, which even most shiksas have no problem with.
So then, you want me righteous, show me where the Jewish girls are and I'll marry every one I find.
I read this whole thing. I think these times will all pass with age. The kind of emotional intensity that we have in our teens and early twenties smolders away I think because it cannot be sustained, You remind me of the Catcher in the Rye in a nice way (not the end of the book, but the struggles he goes through in his head)
-
Lisa you need to stop rely on all these reshaim who call themselves "experts". I know of no guy that wants a sexually active women. And this is not just the "Orthodox" or religious Jews. It is just about everyone. Perhaps most guys would want the women to break her virginity with them, but in either case no one would prefer a non-virgin over a virgin.
-
Almost every guy I know, including myself, would prefer a virgin. The so-called expert sounds like an immoral piece of garbage. Sorry, thats my opinion.
From reading Torah, I find girls who are virgins before marriage rather than those who sleep around and open up their legs to several different men are the ones who are more respected and honored.
Don't forget doctors make a cut of the profits from selling you birth control pills. So much of the medical and pharm industry is ruled by corruption and greed.
Birth control pills are also highly toxic, destroying our water/fish supply and are responsible in hormone imbalances in women, as well as increases in various types of cancers. Trying to control your body in a way Hashem did not intend, has consequences.
-
Feminazism is as wicked a cancer as Sh*tlam and every church and synagogue must purge it by force from its ranks before it eats them alive. Remember that "religious" women are often the most devoted practitioners of this satanic (literally) religion.
Have you ever been called a misogynist? Judging from how much you hate women it would seem an apt label. I realize you had good intentions when you wrote that, but it comes off as nothing but hatred.
-
And condoms make you feel less. There's no point of a half-ultimate experience. Obviously, a guy who does not want a virgin is immoral, it's basically implied.
Well she could be a divorcee or someone who's husband passed away. Or a Baale Teshuva (but a real one).
-
The only Jews who MUST marry a virgin are the Cohanim, the priestly tribe of Israel. The Kohen has much more restrictions on whom he can marry:
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/468267/jewish/Kohen-Marriages.htm
A major set of restrictions concerns marriage. As the sacrifice he offered could have no blemish, the kohen himself could have no blemish. Thus to maintain the purity of his lineage he was kept to stricter marriage standards than his Jewish brothers. In addition to prohibitions that apply for all other Jews, the following partners are specifically prohibited to the kohen.
A kohen may not marry a ge’rusha (divorcee), chalalah (woman of defective kohen status), zonah (woman who previously violated certain sexual prohibitions), giyoret (convert) or chalutzah (a Levirate widow). If he does marry any of them, their children likewise become chalalim. Sons born do not have priestly status, and daughter may not marry kohanim.
-
Feminazism is as wicked a cancer as Sh*tlam and every church and synagogue must purge it by force from its ranks before it eats them alive. Remember that "religious" women are often the most devoted practitioners of this satanic (literally) religion.
While I don't like feminism... and have many 'self proclaimed' feminists in my family who are completely full of anger... I just don't think a feminist is as evil as a Muslim... they are in a different tier....
Also... and ironically.. Muslims hate feminism more than you do.
-
Feminism and Islam go hand in hand.
Just look at Europe.
In Europe, the white native Feminist women pursue careers and don't have children or even marry.
In Europe, The Islamists have live off welfare and have loads of children , like on average 5-10 per household and have women who are submissive and utterly-oppressed housewives, who spend their day breeding new terrorists for the future takeover of their European host countries.
So, its hard to say which is worse. I think both are evil, but I feel safer sitting on an airplane next to a feminist than a Muslim.
Sadly, I think even Israel is hit by this phenomenon, as many of the liberal, feminist-minded Jewish women pursue a career and don't want a family, or if they do, a family that has no more than one or two kids. On the other hand, the Muslims in Israel will have like 5-10 kids.
-
The only Jews who MUST marry a virgin are the Cohanim, the priestly tribe of Israel. The Kohen has much more restrictions on whom he can marry:
I thought the Kohen Gadol was the only one who was required to marry a virgin. When it comes to Zonah, I am not quite sure of all the reasons she would be zonah. It's ok for a kohen to marry a non-virgin if she slept with a Jewish man. But had she slept with a gentile she would definitely always be zonah and forbidden to him. Apart from other sexual immoralities that would make her zonah like incestuous relations etc..
But a widow for example who did not have the case of a levirate brother (if she was a widow whose husband had children), she could marry a kohen but not the Kohen Gadol. The Kohen Gadol would not even be allowed to cohabit with the widow.
Otherwise, I feel bad for the kohanim who really can't find a wife for all the prohibitions to them. The conservative and deform movements see no sanctity on kohanim and do not care who they marry. And likewise, some men with the last name Cohen fall "in love" with the women forbidden to a kohen and celebrate when they find out that they are not really kohanim for the aforementioned disqualifications...as if being a chalal kohen is a reason to celebrate. Which I would not be too keen to want to marry a chalal kohen, even if I could.
Ps: I love Levites, they could marry any Jewish girl they want :)
-
While I don't like feminism... and have many 'self proclaimed' feminists in my family who are completely full of anger... I just don't think a feminist is as evil as a Muslim... they are in a different tier....
Also... and ironically.. Muslims hate feminism more than you do.
I think feminazis are worse. Muslims usually are of much lower intellect, like animals or negro savages. They don't really think through what they do. Also, they don't usually murder their children through abortion (they just make their kids into shahids instead).
They hate Jews and Christians equally for sure.
-
And I think it's a rabbinical prohibition that a Kohen not marry the daughter of a gentile man or the daughter of a giyores. The Israeli rabbinical court decided a few years back to allow the Jewish daughter of a gentile man marry a kohen who was a war hero in the IDF. And in another case, they allowed a black Ethiopian woman marry a kohen as well on the basis that her conversion was just a formality since she was always an Ethiopian Jew. No word if their sons would truly retain the kohen status though.
g-grandfather was a Levi
112- I am in a relationship with a man. He's not a Levite. I used to always hope that I would find my dream Levite. And get my Levin, Levinson, Levitz or HaLevi last name some day...but Hashem did not plan it out that way for me. Maybe I used to hope this for ambition rather than honest feelings. He decided to send me a religious Torah scholar who I admire for his knowledge, love for Hashem and devotion to Judaism.
I'll marry whoever Hashem has chosen for me. Maybe Levite just wasn't for me.
-
It's cool.
Some religious people just can't joke around when it comes to engagements and relationships, you know. :)
-
It was just one sentence, this is all moving a bit quick for my tastes, you need to get control of yourself. Can we at least start with dinner?
:)
Hey, she just said she is engaged. I realize you are making humor, but maybe others may not actually get it...
-
Well it's my fault. I smileys disabled in my settings (because I like the old school type of smileys rather than the big newer ones). So I didn't see the smiley that would have changed the the direction of the sentence.
-
Obviously Deform "Judaism" is a (femi)Nazi religion, but what do you mean about it being "Christianized"? Biblical Christianity is diametrically opposed to feminazism and affirms that men are the spiritual leaders and the leaders of the marriage.
Christianized because the deform founders tried to make the reform so-called "synagogue" into a church. One of their main goals was to make Judaism acceptable to gentiles. So they incorporated a choir, a church organ, etc. And the central place of worship as the primary religious expression is also a borrowed Christian concept. This is combined with feminazism to produce the Modern-Day Reform Jewish Woman.
-
Christianized because the deform founders tried to make the reform so-called "synagogue" into a church. One of their main goals was to make Judaism acceptable to gentiles. So they incorporated a choir, a church organ, etc. And the central place of worship as the primary religious expression is also a borrowed Christian concept. This is combined with feminazism to produce the Modern-Day Reform Jewish Woman.
I'm surprised they didn't make their own version of Jesus too like the Muslims did.
-
I'm surprised they didn't make their own version of Jesus too like the Muslims did.
Lol no that was the red line for them. Maybe the only one.
Just to clarify when they tried to make it acceptable to gentiles it wasn't to convert gentiles but to combat vicious european antisemitism hoping gentiles would come to love them. "See, we're actually similar!"
I might have been unclear.
We still see this drive today as a primary drive of deform movement even tho society is completely different. Now they sometimes oppose bris etc.
-
I feel sad that Jews have been so persecuted over time that some of them feel they have to conform in such a way that they abandon their moral values. Conforming with society as it is now is especially bad.
-
I'm surprised they didn't make their own version of Jesus too like the Muslims did.
I'm sure that they did. They probably have a gay Jesus that supports abortion and Islam.
-
The only Jews who MUST marry a virgin are the Cohanim, the priestly tribe of Israel. The Kohen has much more restrictions on whom he can marry:
If the husband died then can marry her. Soo technically a non-virgin as well.
-
This is combined with feminazism to produce the Modern-Day Reform Jewish Woman.
Deform Judaism is attractive to modern Jewish females because it asserts what the rest of NWO society does--that they can behave however they want and it's a virtue. You see the same in the so-called "emergent church" which is extremely attractive to leftist, brainwashed so-called Christian girls.
-
Just to clarify when they tried to make it acceptable to gentiles it wasn't to convert gentiles but to combat vicious european antisemitism hoping gentiles would come to love them. "See, we're actually similar!"
Conforming in order to appease or be accepted (like women do when they sleep around with men) is never an acceptable or wise decision. It is always self-hatred and it is often suicidal.
1: Nazis are going to hate Jews no matter what they do. Everybody here knows that.
2: "Fencesitting" Gentiles are not going to have any respect for wimpy, subservient, fawning Jews.
3: The disgusting leftist behavior of Deform Judaism is ammunition that Nazis use to attack all Jews in their propaganda.
4: This groveling behavior directly threatens Jewish survival when Nazis take up arms and move to destroy them.
-
Conforming in order to appease or be accepted (like women do when they sleep around with men) is never an acceptable or wise decision. It is always self-hatred and it is often suicidal.
1: Nazis are going to hate Jews no matter what they do. Everybody here knows that.
2: "Fencesitting" Gentiles are not going to have any respect for wimpy, subservient, fawning Jews.
3: The disgusting leftist behavior of Deform Judaism is ammunition that Nazis use to attack all Jews in their propaganda.
4: This groveling behavior directly threatens Jewish survival when Nazis take up arms and move to destroy them.
It was not leftist Jews who the nazis wanted to exterminate. The first Jews they hated were the religious Jews, those who kept the Torah. Look at the nazi propaganda of the time. They always portrayed religious Jews with Kippah and traditional dress. To the Nazis Jews, primarily the religious ones, are parasites to be exterminated. I don't really agree with your portrayal that nazis really only hate Jews because of the leftists. I have watched several documentaries on White Supremacists and they say straight out that they want to burn Talmuds and deface religious Jewish sites such as synagogues and cemataries.
Sometimes I feel that you feed the hatred of these neo-nazis by constantly pointing out Jews who are so 'evil' in your opinion. All the jew hater needs to do is come to JTF and find out which Jews are worthy of defaming the entire Jewish people.
-
I don't really agree with your portrayal that nazis really only hate Jews because of the leftists.
Did you bother to read this?
1: Nazis are going to hate Jews no matter what they do. Everybody here knows that.
I have watched several documentaries on White Supremacists and they say straight out that they want to burn Talmuds and deface religious Jewish sites such as synagogues and cemataries.
Yes, they hate Jews no matter what, but if Jews did not engage in such wimpy, groveling behavior, they'd think twice before they harmed them. How come these Aryan fags don't attack black churches and cemeteries all the time? They know that they are likely to get a tuchis-whupping from the schvartzes.
Sometimes I feel that you feed the hatred of these neo-nazis by constantly pointing out Jews who are so 'evil' in your opinion.
Lay off the bud, dude.
All the jew hater needs to do is come to JTF and find out which Jews are worthy of defaming the entire Jewish people.
Can you rephrase that? That wasn't worded so well.
-
Did you bother to read this?Yes, they hate Jews no matter what, but if Jews did not engage in such wimpy, groveling behavior, they'd think twice before they harmed them. How come these Aryan fags don't attack black churches and cemeteries all the time? They know that they are likely to get a tuchis-whupping from the schvartzes.
Lay off the bud, dude.
Can you rephrase that? That wasn't worded so well.
JSNTN or whatever your name is this week...
Of course I read it, and it is a wimpy excuse for what you wrote. You try to make excuses for the nazis to hate Jews. This is the problem with your entire polemic.
We are not concerned why they hate us, as you say, they hate us no mater what we do. So what is accomplished by your constant negative portrayal of Jews? Is this meant as rebuke? Or is it just pure hatred? It is the job of the Jewish people to rebuke our brothers, and if you feel we are not doing such a good job, I apologize but this is the way it is. I respect Chaims comments about our people, but it is getting into questionable territory when Chaims righteous words are used in order to rile up hatred of Jews, by non-Jews.
I am sorry if this opinion doesn't sit well with you. But I am not Jew who pulls any punches. I am willing to accept the fact that in your heart you really want to help the Jewish people and Chaim's desire for political office in Israel, but there are times I just don't see it.
And regarding "All the jew hater needs to do is come to JTF and find out which Jews are worthy of defaming the entire Jewish people." it is clear that I am saying that some times JTF is full of threads pointing out which Jews are 'deformed' or 'kikes' or other words used to denigrate other Jews. Don't you think this gives those nazis a laugh? Maybe you don't get it...
-
JSNTN or whatever your name is this week...
Of course I read it, and it is a wimpy excuse for what you wrote. You try to make excuses for the nazis to hate Jews. This is the problem with your entire polemic.
We are not concerned why they hate us, as you say, they hate us no mater what we do. So what is accomplished by your constant negative portrayal of Jews? Is this meant as rebuke? Or is it just pure hatred? It is the job of the Jewish people to rebuke our brothers, and if you feel we are not doing such a good job, I apologize but this is the way it is. I respect Chaims comments about our people, but it is getting into questionable territory when Chaims righteous words are used in order to rile up hatred of Jews, by non-Jews.
I am sorry if this opinion doesn't sit well with you. But I am not Jew who pulls any punches. I am willing to accept the fact that in your heart you really want to help the Jewish people and Chaim's desire for political office in Israel, but there are times I just don't see it.
And regarding "All the jew hater needs to do is come to JTF and find out which Jews are worthy of defaming the entire Jewish people." it is clear that I am saying that some times JTF is full of threads pointing out which Jews are 'deformed' or 'kikes' or other words used to denigrate other Jews. Don't you think this gives those nazis a laugh? Maybe you don't get it...
If you think you're getting my goat, you are mistaken. You've been trying this since you came to JTF and nobody buys it. Try it with someone else. Have a good day now.
-
Regarding Jews avoidance of violence this is an internal problem. I think Tag tried to explain to you one time the problems we Jews have as a result of the 'galut mentality'. Namecalling and being harsh does not bring Jews to be more patriotic nor observant. I believe that it is possible to bring Jewish Pride back and Rabbi Kahane was one of the leaders when it came to Jewish Pride. This is what I think about Jews not being responsive when it comes to Jew hatred.
-
If you think you're getting my goat, you are mistaken. You've been trying this since you came to JTF and nobody buys it. Try it with someone else. Have a good day now.
I apologize if you feel that my intention is to upset you. And I really regret it. I was trying to offer sincere advice. Maybe over time you will understand.
-
1: Nazis are going to hate Jews no matter what they do. Everybody here knows that.
We know that, they do not (want to) believe that. They try to imitate the gentile society at large and make the Jews assimilate one step at a time, progressively going lower and lower. They model themselves as a "church" without saying they believe in jesus since if they had at first (along with their many other wrong policies and ways) they would be outright rejected. Same like jfj are precisely doing this. Although their people and funding is mostly Christian to begin with disguising as Jews.
Also in their philosophy they are like the churches and early Jewish breakaway sects (including the followers of Yoshka) in that they broke away from following Jewish law and have and had an attitude of "I do what I want" and interpret the Torah (Bible) in the ways that are suitable for them. Soo breaking Shabbous is convenient they will break it. Men "marrying men" is the progressive thing and "in", soo they will perform these abominations as they see fit, ignoring the Torah and Halacha (Jewish law) prohibiting such things.
-
We know that, they do not (want to) believe that. They try to imitate the gentile society at large and make the Jews assimilate one step at a time, progressively going lower and lower. They model themselves as a "church" without saying they believe in jesus since if they had at first (along with their many other wrong policies and ways) they would be outright rejected. Same like jfj are precisely doing this. Although their people and funding is mostly Christian to begin with disguising as Jews.
Also in their philosophy they are like the churches and early Jewish breakaway sects (including the followers of Yoshka) in that they broke away from following Jewish law and have and had an attitude of "I do what I want" and interpret the Torah (Bible) in the ways that are suitable for them. Soo breaking Shabbous is convenient they will break it. Men "marrying men" is the progressive thing and "in", soo they will perform these abominations as they see fit, ignoring the Torah and Halacha (Jewish law) prohibiting such things.
It's disgusting and it's hideous and it doesn't get them respect for anyone. The same is true of women. Women who sleep with the entire football team are groveling self-haters that are desperate for any kind of attention, positive or negative. All that they care about is whether or not somebody "likes" them. They could get themselves quality men if they wanted to but they don't want to live by any moral standards or codes that limits self-serving behavior in any way, so they stoop to the lowest common denominator.
-
It's disgusting and it's hideous and it doesn't get them respect for anyone. The same is true of women. Women who sleep with the entire football team are groveling self-haters that are desperate for any kind of attention, positive or negative. All that they care about is whether or not somebody "likes" them. They could get themselves quality men if they wanted to but they don't want to live by any moral standards or codes that limits self-serving behavior in any way, so they stoop to the lowest common denominator.
That is most obvious. To anyone who is mature and rational it is obvious when a women is acting like a 'slut'. I just am not amazed and make a big deal about those who do. In my opinion some celebrities they do it for the publicity, and today any publicity (even promiscuousness) is good publicity.
I fail to see why 'deformed jews' are compared to these women though.
-
Muman- We are talking about the movements and not necessarily the ignorant people who go to them. Many Jews are just ignorant and we don't hold all of them responsible, but the movements who make these things is a different matter altogether. The original response from KWRBT talked about the issue of the deformists being like Churches in the sense they they want to and do copy their mentality and culture etc. Just say, was saying that they are like "immodest" women in the sense that they do things trying to please others but in the end never get respect they want in the first place.
-
Muman- We are talking about the movements and not necessarily the ignorant people who go to them. Many Jews are just ignorant and we don't hold all of them responsible, but the movements who make these things is a different matter altogether. The original response from KWRBT talked about the issue of the deformists being like Churches in the sense they they want to and do copy their mentality and culture etc. Just say, was saying that they are like "immodest" women in the sense that they do things trying to please others but in the end never get respect they want in the first place.
Thank you, I think I understand...
-
It was not leftist Jews who the nazis wanted to exterminate. The first Jews they hated were the religious Jews, those who kept the Torah. Look at the nazi propaganda of the time. They always portrayed religious Jews with Kippah and traditional dress. To the Nazis Jews, primarily the religious ones, are parasites to be exterminated. I don't really agree with your portrayal that nazis really only hate Jews because of the leftists. I have watched several documentaries on White Supremacists and they say straight out that they want to burn Talmuds and deface religious Jewish sites such as synagogues and cemataries.
Sometimes I feel that you feed the hatred of these neo-nazis by constantly pointing out Jews who are so 'evil' in your opinion. All the jew hater needs to do is come to JTF and find out which Jews are worthy of defaming the entire Jewish people.
Actually... while they did use the images of religious jews for their propoganda... since they thought it was more effective... they went after anyone who could NOT prove that their parents were not half jewish.... and this was ALWAYS their plan... to them it wasnt about their ideology.. .it was about their race.
They even had propoganda specifically saying... A jew that does not dress like a jew was still a jew... in fact.. they are even worse.. since they are hiding their race.
-
Actually... while they did use the images of religious jews for their propoganda... since they thought it was more effective... they went after anyone who could NOT prove that their parents were not half jewish.... and this was ALWAYS their plan... to them it wasnt about their ideology.. .it was about their race.
They even had propoganda specifically saying... A jew that does not dress like a jew was still a jew... in fact.. they are even worse.. since they are hiding their race.
So why Jews don't wake up, walk strong, and prepare for a fight with the Nazis of the world is beyond me. What will it take for them to wake up?
-
So why Jews don't wake up, walk strong, and prepare for a fight with the Nazis of the world is beyond me. What will it take for them to wake up?
Torah.
-
But a lot of religious Jews are still not forceful or bold or proud in any way.
-
A lot of times the deformed movement or secular Jews are the only Jews that a lot of people are exposed to. Here in Texas for example I think I saw religious Jews maybe 3 times in my entire life. So what are we left with as an impression except what we see on tv? And to be honest most of what we see on tv is a very negative image. In spite of this most people I know are very pro-Israel. In a sense it's a miracle from God that this is the case. Nevertheless the images we get of Hollywood Jews and left wing politicians are not positive ones and it certainly doesn't portray American Jewry in a good light at all.
-
Also remember, Rubystars, that quite sadly Deformed are the majority of U.S. Jewry.
-
Also remember, Rubystars, that quite sadly Deformed are the majority of U.S. Jewry.
Most if not almost all do not know any better and are like babies kidnapped by other nations. That is why those like Rav Kahane tried to install back the Jewish values that they haven't been exposed to. And with his message he got many Jews back to Torah Judaism. He also did expose the corrupt leaders who were and are only concerned about deflating anti-semitism from themselves and making people conform to their actions and making them acceptable to all. For example them or their children marrying a gentile, soo then making it acceptable for all, or them being homos or some of their children therefore promoting it soo they "fit in"and aren't ostracized.
-
Most if not almost all do not know any better and are like babies kidnapped by other nations. That is why those like Rav Kahane tried to install back the Jewish values that they haven't been exposed to. And with his message he got many Jews back to Torah Judaism. He also did expose the corrupt leaders who were and are only concerned about deflating anti-semitism from themselves and making people conform to their actions and making them acceptable to all. For example them or their children marrying a gentile, soo then making it acceptable for all, or them being homos or some of their children therefore promoting it soo they "fit in"and aren't ostracized.
What do you do though if they reject the message of Kahanism and insist on worshipping the false gods of leftism and assimilation? How do you continue to reach brothers and sisters of yours that have shut you out?
-
What do you do though if they reject the message of Kahanism and insist on worshipping the false gods of leftism and assimilation? How do you continue to reach brothers and sisters of yours that have shut you out?
Like Moshe and the Prophets of Israel we just bring the message and if rejected say it over and over (appropriately) and most will and do eventually listen and accept the truth. Not say it in anger or hate though because it usually always does not end well but out of brotherhood and love. Also even Moshe was scolded by G-D for being angry just 1ce against Bnai Yisrael because of it he was not allowed to enter Israel. The Prophet Isaiah had his mouth cut (not just mouth but all the way through killing him) by his own grandson (Menashe), G-D allowed it as a punishment because he once said something negative against the children of Israel.
-
EveryJewA44 it seems to me from where I'm standing that there is nothing keeping you in America. Why not go and live in Israel? Seriously what's stopping you, it can actually help you with finding your one and true love. She could be waiting for you in your true home.
-
EveryJewA44 it seems to me from where I'm standing that there is nothing keeping you in America. Why not go and live in Israel? Seriously what's stopping you, it can actually help you with finding your one and true love. She could be waiting for you in your true home.
Wow, that was a slam dunk of a suggestion, how did I not even think of that. I guess I have become mired in the galut. I also need to go to israel.
-
Let me just say that Jew haters will hate Jews no matter what. They can be right wing, or left wing, and it still won't matter. I was once called a Jew-b---c.
Sadly, many religious, or observant Jews seem to strike me as too pacifist. A few years ago, I was at a Hineni speech listening to Rebbitzin Eshter Jungreis (who Chaim doesn't like). She was discussing anti-Semitism, and how bad things are in Israel. This was during Hannukah. And her conclusion was, everyone needs to become more religious, which is all well and good. But it seems to me to be only half of it. She also suggested people meditate for about 10 minutes in front of their menorahs.
Listening to her at the time I thought to myself, what about taking other actions? What about beating the snot out of these hoodlums who attack Jews, for example? I mean, I'll probably get criticized for this but I think Jews need to do more than bury their heads in their prayer books.
I remember Chaim once saying a while back that when he ran the JDL, at least the anti-Semite thugs had a grudging respect for them since they fought back. Now granted you can never make anyone like you. But if someone at least has a modicum of respect for you, then maybe they'll be less likely to mess with you.
-
Lisa assimilation is worse than the anti-semitism. People like that lady (I heard of her before) is fighting the fight against assimilation. Also no offense to women but it would sound weird for a lady to talk about physically fighting, from the men it should be expected and demanded though.
-
I agree 100 percent with you Lisa, make them think twice about even trying to mess with you.
Ps: Where the heck do you get menorah candles?
I got mine in the supermarket...
-
Lisa assimilation is worse than the anti-semitism. People like that lady (I heard of her before) is fighting the fight against assimilation. Also no offense to women but it would sound weird for a lady to talk about physically fighting, from the men it should be expected and demanded though.
But that's what bothers me. Why does it have to be one or the other? Why can't Jews always be secure in their faith and proud of their religion? I get the impression that people think anti-Semitism is "needed" to keep Jews from assimilating. But why can't we Jews hold on to our religion in good times and in bad times?
-
But that's what bothers me. Why does it have to be one or the other? Why can't Jews always be secure in their faith and proud of their religion? I get the impression that people think anti-Semitism is "needed" to keep Jews from assimilating. But why can't we Jews hold on to our religion in good times and in bad times?
Yes, we should. That is why I do what has to be done, you do what has to be done and set an example and soo does the next guy and next girl etc.
I was just saying that her lectures are directed at and for people to be and stay Jewish, be connected to Torah and Misswoth, etc. and bring meaning and motivation to keep them (at least what I heard about her, I didn't listen to her though).
-
I can only find them during Hanukkah!
When else would you use Chanukah candles?
-
Listening to her at the time I thought to myself, what about taking other actions? What about beating the snot out of these hoodlums who attack Jews, for example? I mean, I'll probably get criticized for this but I think Jews need to do more than bury their heads in their prayer books.
I remember Chaim once saying a while back that when he ran the JDL, at least the anti-Semite thugs had a grudging respect for them since they fought back. Now granted you can never make anyone like you. But if someone at least has a modicum of respect for you, then maybe they'll be less likely to mess with you.
The same is true of women. Misogynist Nazis will hate women no matter what they do--whether they put out for any human that comes along or passively take abuse or behave with pride and self-respect and save themselves for marriage. The difference is that the woman-haters will have much less opportunity to treat proud women like crap. The majority of women do not fight back when they are being raped and beaten and the majority of women will accept any kind of atrocious behavior from their dates/boyfriends. Proud women will not put up with this in the least.
-
The same is true of women. Misogynist Nazis will hate women no matter what they do--whether they put out for any human that comes along or passively take abuse or behave with pride and self-respect and save themselves for marriage. The difference is that the woman-haters will have much less opportunity to treat proud women like crap. The majority of women do not fight back when they are being raped and beaten and the majority of women will accept any kind of atrocious behavior from their dates/boyfriends. Proud women will not put up with this in the least.
What evidence do you have that women will not fight back when raped? To me this sounds like blaming the victim again..
-
For a seven branch menorah!
I would assume any good Judaica store should stock Chanukah candles during the year. I used 'Streits' candles this year but have used Manishewitz candles in the past...
http://www.wegmans.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=731124&storeId=10052&langId=-1
-
Akh. So glad I'm married and don't have to deal with all this crap.
Bottom line. The one you marry for the right reasons is your soulmate. Everyone else before is just a tool to help you find that individual. Don't sweat it when you get rejected. It's not meant yo be or at least at that time. Besides, once you marry you will laugh about all those silly crushes.
-
EveryJewA44 it seems to me from where I'm standing that there is nothing keeping you in America. Why not go and live in Israel? Seriously what's stopping you, it can actually help you with finding your one and true love. She could be waiting for you in your true home.
There are many reasons Irish Zionist and perhaps I will discuss them with you. The reasons are controversial and I do think a few people on JTF will disagree..
Here are a few reasons in a nutshell why I will not move to Israel at the present time. Actually here is my criteria about countries I will not live, Israel, sadly is included:
I will not live in a country where:
1. Where I am not allowed to own a firearm/ Where I must turn in my guns or be disarmed
2. Where the government has taken control of people's homes or has thrown people out of their homes by force.
3. That has an Islamic population over 5%, preferably under 1%.
Sadly, Israel fails all three of these criteria, which are of the most important to me:
1. Israel has strictest gun control laws for its citizens of any modern, Westernized country.
2. Israeli government (even recently) has thrown Jews out of their homes many times.
3. Israel's Islamic population is over 20%. I would not live in a place surrounded by so many Muslims, especially where I am not allowed to own a gun.
4. An extra note.. I refuse to live in an area where even if I can own a gun, that I am surrounded by large numbers of Muslims who have more guns than myself and my neighbors.
I'm in agreement with Lisa.. We Jews need to stand up , be strong and defend ourselves. I hate to admit that a majority of Jews, especially in the USA are greater pacifists than even the most devout Jainist in India (which Gandhi was one). Turning the other cheek and passive resistance isn't part of our Torah, but somehow we Jews are so brainwashed to think that if we forgive and turn the other cheek to our enemies they will love us.
-
What? Your last post does not make sense. About guns, then why do you live in America. Isn't Obama making the gun laws even more stricter? You can always live in Israel especially the "territories" and get a gun. Not only that you can join the army and carry a big gun all the time.
You can stand up all you like. In the galut their still would not be any real chance for survival. You think if something really goes down you and even all the Jews in America would be able to do anything?
Lets just say the truth, its comfortable.
-
What? Your last post does not make sense. About guns, then why do you live in America. Isn't Obama making the gun laws even more stricter? You can always live in Israel especially the "territories" and get a gun. Not only that you can join the army and carry a big gun all the time.
You can stand up all you like. In the galut their still would not be any real chance for survival. You think if something really goes down you and even all the Jews in America would be able to do anything?
Lets just say the truth, its comfortable.
Tag Mehir, this is much more complicated than can be summarized in a single paragraph on a web forum thread.
First of all, Obama hasn't done anything but pull out some big talk from his stinking b*tthole. Everything he does must pass through Congress and there is a great resistance to it. Yes, Obama Hussein is doing everything he can do destroy the rights of American people. But, somehow I think he will fail in his endeavors. Second, let's be a bit more realistic. Even if Obama passes an AWB banning semi auto rifles, Americans will still have more gun rights than a majority of Israeli citizens have. A majority of Israeli citizens are not allowed to even own a gun. In order to own a gun you have to go through BS psychological exams and are limited to only one handgun and a limited amount of ammo. If Obama Hussein passes an AWB, he will meet fierce resistance from many States, who will refuse to enforce his unconstitutional laws. If Obama Hussein passes the AWB, I may have second thoughts about everything, but Israel still is far from meeting my qualifications. Also, what would I do with the guns/ammo I have? The Torah says every Jew must be armed, but the Government of Israel will demand I have it sold off or turned in before I am allowed entrance into Israel. The day Israel allows me to bring my guns and ammo and live as a free citizen, rather than a inferior subject of the Knesset, is a day I will seriously consider making Aliyah.
I can join the IDF and carry a gun. Why do I have to be a soldier man to have the G-d given /Torah given right to have a gun? Heinrich Himmler said the same thing, if you need a gun go join the SS or SA, you should be in the military. I don't want to live in a police state where only the military is armed. Why do I have to give up my job, freedom and life and be reduced as a servant to a government for which I have little respect . No, I am not fond of any government that orders its soldiers to throw Jewish people out of their homes and defends Muslims and persecutes Jews. No, I don't believe in fighting wars where I must put my own brothers lives on the line to help protect the lives of Arab "civilians" (who are also terrorists), which is how Israel fights most of its wars. Actually, I'd rather not join the Tzahal as of now. And, if they do command me to throw Jewish settlers out of their homes at one point, I will refuse the order and spend the rest of my life in prison. That will be my great reward for Aliyah! Spending the next of my life in prison with Arab criminals.
Must I be forced to live in a Settler territory surrounded by large numbers of Arabs who have even more guns than the Jews, just so I can own a gun? And if I use my gun, you can be sure I would suffer dearly in Israeli courts which always favor Arabs over Jews in any legislation. In the USA, if I shoot an intruder in self-defense, more likely than not, if it was a legitimate shoot, I will be a free man, not likely in Israel. I have heard stories of Jews going to prison for defending their farms against Bedouin thieves. Considering, I am in the IT industry, living in a far settler outpost is also not likely if I want to put food in my mouth.
I also simply cannot live in a country that has so many Arabs and Muslims and be told I am not trusted with a gun to defend myself. Just the whole concept really pisses me off!
I said my beliefs are controversial and I apologize for those I offended or who think I am wrong.
-
Soo to have a gun you forfeit your right, no obligation to be in Eress Yisrael? You think your gun in the end will protect you in the U.S.A. ? Your logic does not make sense. Eress Yisrael comes with sacrifice. And you wont spend the rest of your life in jail for refusing orders. Get real. America or anywhere else in the galut is being terminated for the Jewish nation. Leave in time or their wont be a time to leave. In 1930's it also seemed going to Israel was not safe, surrounded by all those Arabs, gov. (British) in charge and not giving rights. While in Europe it was great. We had the Yeshivot and everything seemed great. Until. Yepp until THAT happened. Also in America their is greater danger and problems then in Israel- loss of Jewish identity and assimilation. At least in Israel the Jewish and especially the religious population is growing. Both from birth-rate and in the # of Jews coming back to Torah-Judaism.
-
Soo to have a gun you forfeit your right, no obligation to be in Eress Yisrael? You think your gun in the end will protect you in the U.S.A. ? Your logic does not make sense. Eress Yisrael comes with sacrifice. And you wont spend the rest of your life in jail for refusing orders. Get real. America or anywhere else in the galut is being terminated for the Jewish nation. Leave in time or their wont be a time to leave. In 1930's it also seemed going to Israel was not safe, surrounded by all those Arabs, gov. (British) in charge and not giving rights. While in Europe it was great. We had the Yeshivot and everything seemed great. Until. Yepp until THAT happened. Also in America their is greater danger and problems then in Israel- loss of Jewish identity and assimilation. At least in Israel the Jewish and especially the religious population is growing. Both from birth-rate and in the # of Jews coming back to Torah-Judaism.
Sadly Tag Mehir, back in the early days, the Jews wanted to have a homeland and would fight for it. Today, Israel is ruled by self-hating Jews who are power hungry and care very little for their own people. Today, we have Jews who are giving away precious land to Arabs to appease the European nations who hate the Jewish people.
Why is Israel so safe for Jews? More Jews have been murdered in Israel than anywhere in the world in the last 20-30 years. France, another nation with a lot of Muslims and people have limited gun rights (no Jews in France own guns), is another place where Jews have been targeted and murdered. These murders could have been prevented if Israel had a government that sought to empower and protect its people rather than protect and empower its enemies to appease their external masters.
I think we are living under the illusion that Israel is truly a nation. As of now, it seems liek a puppet state for the European and Liberal American governments. If Israel is a nation it would have already nuked Iran and have wiped out all the Palestinians in Shomron and Yehudah. Sadly, the nation of Israel today is run by traitors and in many ways I feel like the situation is horribly dire.
How safe will all those Jews congregated in such a small piece of land be with a nuclear-armed Iran who has 20 times as much land and has leaders who think they go to heaven and get lots of virgins for killing Jews?
SOmehow Israel is very safe, but USA or other countries are so dangerous. I'm afraid the next genocide of Jews may happen in Israel. What is to stop a corrupt and evil Israeli government from mass murdering or arresting large numbers of people who they think threaten their own power? Do you know why America has a 2nd Amendment? That is because we fear our government from tyranny. Israel doesn't have a 2nd Amendment. Why is Israeli government impervious to tyranny?? Considering Jews were beaten, murdered, arrested and thrown out of their homes to give the land to Muslims, I think the Israeli government already has proven it can be quite tyrannical!
I know what I say is probably resented here and I apologize. If people feel the need to kick me or shut me up that is fine. I don't have a rosy outlook for Israel as of now..
I do know in the end, when Moshiach comes (and hopefully long before), that all this crap will be straightened out and that there will be no more Muslims praying on the Temple Mount in Yerushalayim and that ugly blue dome that contaminates the Yerushalayim skyline will be bulldozed and replaced with a memorial for all the Jewish victims murdered by Muslims and Europeans (i.e. by Germans, Austrians, Spaniards, Portuguese, Poles, Russians, Ukrainians, English, etc) .
Proving Israel is Not Safe For Jews:
(http://www.pjvoice.com/v44/photos/yeshiva3.jpg)
THis should have never happened!!! Heavily armed Arabs, Disarmed Jews!!! Of course Yeshiva boys are not in the military, no guns for them!
-
EveryJewa44 -
You have very valid complaints, and I wouldn't want you kicked or censored at all because what you said comes from your heart.
For those who want to quote the Rebbe who said that Israel was the safest nation on the earth and that Jews should move there - that was in the early 90s.
I've never brought this up before, but the Rebbe answered many letters written to him by congregants in other States, in requesting advice whether they should move to Israel, the Rebbe stated that if their absence from their congregation would diminish it, they should not move.
In fact, the Rebbe referenced several diminished South African congregations, where leaders of these congregations left to Israel selfishly, abandoning their own congregations to their detriment.
And what do we have today as a result of all of this? Aliyah "organizations" preying upon the young idealists, profiting from their emigration. People being treated like pieces of meat, who are commodities to be absorbed into Israel when it is convenient to do so to displace other troublesome populations.
The fact is, the Chutz La'Aretz Jews are being treated like pawns. Support Israel! Buy our exports! Send us money! BUT DON'T TELL US NOT TO VOTE FOR SHAS OR MAFDAL! Quite frankly, I don't like the salty Israeli pickles nor the stale sunflower seeds. What I like is Israeli land. Those of us who are stuck in Chutz La'aretz must take a good look at what is actually being accomplished by our "support". We financed the settler movement, yet the Mo'etzet Pesha is surreptitiously undermining the settlements in order to obtain a little temporary wealth. So besides the No'ar Ha'givaot, which is the only worthwhile charity in Israel, who are we actually supporting? Why are we supporting the opponents of the hilltop youth?
The reason why Ben Ari and Marzel were able to get away with their betrayal is because they know that no matter what they do, Jews in Chutz La'aretz who dare criticize the charity establishments tired mantra that we must "support Israel" will be immediately silenced and thay they will continue to receive funding no matter what.
If Israel continues to elect parties like Mafdal, then we must take a serious look at our financial support and consider donating to more worthwhile LOCAL causes. Achim, the shape of North American Jewry doesn't look all that great either, in case you didn't know.
-
בס''ד
First of all, this is the type of thread that scares away women members. Why in the world would we post something so insulting to women? If not for righteous women, Chazal teach us, we would never have been liberated from slavery in Egypt. Heroic Hebrew midwives risked their lives by refusing Pharoah's order to murder all male Hebrew babies. And when the Hebrew men had decided to not have children any more because they did not want to bring children into the cruel world of slavery, it was the Hebrew women who convinced them that they had to continue to have children. And when the Hebrew men sinned with the Golden Calf, the Hebrew women did not participate in that terrible sin. And when the Hebrew men listened to the spies who told them not to conquer the land of Israel because it was "impractical" and "unrealistic", the Hebrew women trusted Hashem and wanted to go forward with the conquest.
As far as this defeatist talk about not making aliyah, this is why there was a physical holocaust in Europe and a spiritual holocaust in the United States. Making aliyah is not an option, it is a mitzvah (commandment). The galut (exile) is a punishment. You think conditions are bad in Israel today? Israel today is paradise compared to what it was 100 years ago when the chalutzim (pioneers) settled the land. There is no future for Jews outside of Israel.
What is the Torah view?
לעולם ידור אדם בארץ ישראל אפילו בעיר שרובה עובדי כוכבים, ואל ידור בחו"ל ואפילו בעיר שרובה ישראל , שכל הדר בארץ ישראל - דומה כמי שיש לו אלוה, וכל הדר בחוצה לארץ - דומה כמי שאין לו אלוה, שנא' (ויקרא כה): "לתת לכם את ארץ כנען - להיות לכם לאלהים". וכל שאינו דר בארץ אין לו אלוה?! אלא לומר לך: כל הדר בחו"ל - כאילו עובד עבודת כוכבים; וכן בדוד הוא אומר: (שמואל א, כו) "כי גרשוני היום מהסתפח בנחלת ה' לאמר לך עבוד אלהים אחרים", וכי מי אמר לו לדוד לך עבוד אלהים אחרים? אלא לומר לך: כל הדר בחו"ל - כאילו עובד עבודת כוכבים. (מסכת כתובות דף קי ע"ב)
Translation:
A Jew must always live in the land of Israel even in a city where the majority are idolators, and not live outside of the land even in a city where the majority are Jews, because all who live in the land of Israel are like one who has a G-d, and all who live outside of the land are like one who has no G-d, as it is written in Vayikra 25 [Leviticus in the Torah]: "To give you the land of Canaan, to be for you a G-d". And all who do not live in the land have no G-d? It is to say: all who live outside of the land, it is as if they worship idols as it is written in Samuel 1:26:"For they have expelled me today from being part of the inheritance of G-d to say, 'Go worship other gods'"....(Masechet Ktuvot 100:72)
Explanation:
1. In other words, Torah Judaism teaches us that living in Israel even in a city where the majority of inhabitants are idol-worshippers is preferable to living outside of the land even in a city where the majority are Jews. So Judea and Samaria (which is 80% Arab Nazis versus 20% Jews) is far preferable to Boro Park or Kew Gardens Hills or Monsey where 90% of the residents are Orthodox Jews.
2. A Jew who lives outside of Israel is like a Jew with no G-d and an idol-worshipper. A Jew who lives in Israel is like a Jew with a G-d.
Can someone live in Israel and still be an evil traitor? Of course. Traitors are not living there for the right reason. But for Jews who believe, there is no alternative to living in Israel now that we are able to do so.
-
I was going to write something similar to what you said concerning the commandment to live in the land, without excuses... But you gave a great explanation.
-
And when the Hebrew men had decided to not have children any more because they did not want to bring children into the cruel world of slavery, it was the Hebrew women who convinced them that they had to continue to have children.
But it was also Hebrew women who assisted Pharaoh with male infanticide:
"Because the midwives feared G-D, he gave them great families of their own"
Exodus 1:21
The Rashbam and Tur explain: The literal words in the Pasuk are "And he made them houses". Pharaoh built government-funded birth clinics in order to circumvent the midwives... Initially, one would think that he forced the women to visit those clinics. But if he could not force the women to throw their boys into the river, how did he force the women to give birth in his clinics?
The answer is simple: Pharaoh built the first Planned-Parenthood in history. Pharaoh lured Jewish women away from traditional childbirth and into the 'clinics', just as women today are lured into Planned Parenthood, and only when he was able to gain a substantial amount of patients was he able to strictly enforce male infanticide, because of most of the misled women in a given Egyptian neighborhood were visiting this clinic, a lone righteous Jewish women giving birth at home would be easily detected by the Egyptian authorities.
So women were not all 'peaches and roses' as we are lead to believe.
Regarding living inside Israel, if a well-known Rabbi from a congregation would cause detriment to his congregation by moving to Israel (As I have pointed out has happened many times before in the past), he most certainly should not do so. The reason is obvious, and I should also point out that his caused the dissolution of many communities as well. If you want me to post the letters from Igrot Kodesh, I will gladly do so. It is blind to naïvely quote Halacha from the Talmud. Open up a Shulchan Aruch and read the inyanim regarding living in Eretz Yisrael there and you will see that the Halacha is not black and white as you would have everybody believe.
Also, you translated the page number in the Talmud wrong. It's not 100:72, but Kuf Yud Amud Bet - 110:b not Ayin Bet. Keep in mind that those who wrote the Talmud lived outside of Eretz Yisrael because they were forced to. The Rebbe declared that all Yidden in the post-holocaust generation are considered Tinok Shenishba, a concept in the Gemara which refers to a captured toddler. If someone cannot move to Israel for whatever reason, he is obviously not sinning in any way.
You also neglected to quote the text that immediately follows it on 111:a
"R. Zera was evading Rab Judah because he desired to go up to the Land of Israel while Rab Judah had expressed [the following view:] Whoever goes up from Babylon to the Land of Israel transgresses a positive commandment, for it is said in Scripture, They shall be carried to Babylon, and there shall they be, until the day that I remember them, saith the Lord."
Does this mean that a Jew who lives in Babylon is forbidden from leaving Babylon? So Iraqi Jews and such were forbidden from making Aliyah?
-
I'm not very knowledgeable in Talmud as others here, although I am captivated by what Bachamal has wrote and can say with my surface knowledge on the Judaic laws it sounds very reasonable to me.
Even though I respect Chaim what you are saying, I find some challenges in what you wrote. Considering, you are quoting from Vayikra in Torah, wouldn't have the Prophet Yirmeyahu have also been classified as an idol worshiper for telling the Israelites that they must leave Israel to go into captivity in Babylon? I mean it was a time when Israel was being punished and the Chaldeans came to bring devastation and G-d actually commanded the Israelites to stay during this period. I believe Bachamal basically answered my question in his post.
I really don't know how to convey myself in through a deeply religious perspective, but through a practical perspective I do not believe making Aliyah is the best option for me, although it may be a good option for other Jews who can actually make a difference in there right now.
Here is a rhetorical question I can impose on this subject:
Would it please G-d more to live in Israel so you can have a family and children and then watch then all be slaughtered by Arab Nazis, because the government of idol worshipers said you are not allowed to have any means to defend yourself? Or, would it please G-d more for you to live in Galut to be able to empower their race in a country they have more freedom, the right to worship Hashem, unopposed, and can train and arm their family in defense? As well, with the money you generate overseas, you can eventually use it to purchase property in Israel, as well as having the extra income will give you more power to fund and support politicians or organizations that you feel will help Israel. Remember, this is the 21st century, everything is a matter of money! Basically, if you can do more good in Galut for Eretz Yisrael than you can do in Eretz Yisrael itself, then I feel it is more noble to live in Galut. That is my belief, anyhow. The practical approach..
What happened in Nazi Germany can happen everywhere, including Israel. As a matter of fact, if you read history, some of the worst holocausts against the Jewish people, almost as bad or worse than what happened in Europe, occurred in Israel, itself. The massacre of the Jews by the Romans, Chaldeans, Assyrians all results in a massive genocide against a majority of the Jewish population. So, living in Eretz Yisrael doesn't always mean you are free from the risk of genocide.
How am I worshiping an idol by supporting Israel abroad? That is a bold accusation as well, as Hashem destroys idol worshipers. I suppose the Jew who davens and lives a frum lifestyle everyday is more cursed than the Jew who attends gay pride parades in their g-string in Tel Aviv?
The strange thing I notice is that many who say it is wrong to live in Galut, live in Galut.
Bachamal, are you currently in Israel? Just curious.
-
Similar subject was being discussed at yahoo answers last week. I can post the link if needed.
-
But it was also Hebrew women who assisted Pharaoh with male infanticide:
"Because the midwives feared G-D, he gave them great families of their own"
Exodus 1:21
The Rashbam and Tur explain: The literal words in the Pasuk are "And he made them houses". Pharaoh built government-funded birth clinics in order to circumvent the midwives... Initially, one would think that he forced the women to visit those clinics. But if he could not force the women to throw their boys into the river, how did he force the women to give birth in his clinics?
The answer is simple: Pharaoh built the first Planned-Parenthood in history. Pharaoh lured Jewish women away from traditional childbirth and into the 'clinics', just as women today are lured into Planned Parenthood, and only when he was able to gain a substantial amount of patients was he able to strictly enforce male infanticide, because of most of the misled women in a given Egyptian neighborhood were visiting this clinic, a lone righteous Jewish women giving birth at home would be easily detected by the Egyptian authorities.
So women were not all 'peaches and roses' as we are lead to believe.
Regarding living inside Israel, if a well-known Rabbi from a congregation would cause detriment to his congregation by moving to Israel (As I have pointed out has happened many times before in the past), he most certainly should not do so. The reason is obvious, and I should also point out that his caused the dissolution of many communities as well. If you want me to post the letters from Igrot Kodesh, I will gladly do so. It is blind to naïvely quote Halacha from the Talmud. Open up a Shulchan Aruch and read the inyanim regarding living in Eretz Yisrael there and you will see that the Halacha is not black and white as you would have everybody believe.
Also, you translated the page number in the Talmud wrong. It's not 100:72, but Kuf Yud Amud Bet - 110:b not Ayin Bet. Keep in mind that those who wrote the Talmud lived outside of Eretz Yisrael because they were forced to. The Rebbe declared that all Yidden in the post-holocaust generation are considered Tinok Shenishba, a concept in the Gemara which refers to a captured toddler. If someone cannot move to Israel for whatever reason, he is obviously not sinning in any way.
You also neglected to quote the text that immediately follows it on 111:a
"R. Zera was evading Rab Judah because he desired to go up to the Land of Israel while Rab Judah had expressed [the following view:] Whoever goes up from Babylon to the Land of Israel transgresses a positive commandment, for it is said in Scripture, They shall be carried to Babylon, and there shall they be, until the day that I remember them, saith the Lord."
Does this mean that a Jew who lives in Babylon is forbidden from leaving Babylon? So Iraqi Jews and such were forbidden from making Aliyah?
There are many sages who disagree with that interpretation that the midwives performed any infanticide. You must realize who Shifra and Pooah were, they were Miriam and Joceved themselves.
This explains much of this understanding:
http://www.torah.org/learning/women/class45.html
SHIFRAH AND PUAH / MIRIAM AND JOCHEBED
(The following essay has been adapted from a lecture by Mrs. Leah Kohn)
The story of Shifrah and Puah takes place during the time of the enslavement of the Jewish people by Pharoah in Egypt. The Torah text tells us, "The king of Egypt said to the Hebrew midwives, of whom the name of the first was Shifrah and the name of the second was Puah" 'When you deliver the Hebrew women, and you see them on the birthstool; if it is a son, you are to kill him, and if it is a daughter, she shall live (Exodus 1:15-17).'" Pharoah contrived this blatant - if secret - scheme upon failing to stop the growth of the Jewish people through backbreaking labor. He assumed that the Jewish midwives would follow his orders under threat of death. However, he did not reckon with their spiritual greatness and commitment to God and the Jewish Nation.
Our Sages tell us that the midwives Shifrah and Puah were none other than Jochebed and Miriam, the mother and sister of the yet to be born Moses. Rashi (R' Shlomo Yitzchaki, 1040-1105, the preeminent Torah commentator) tells us that the name Shifra comes from a Hebrew root that means, "the capacity to make something better, or to improve its quality." In keeping with this characteristic, and contrary to Pharoah's orders, Shifrah did everything she could to assist the Jewish women in childbirth and to care for their infants after delivery. The name Puah, comes from a Hebrew root that implies a particular gift of speech. Rashi comments that Puah was able to soothe a crying baby to sleep with her special way of talking. Shifrah and Puah's response to Pharoah's ordination is surprising. We might have expected them to either:
1) Outright refuse to participate with Pharoah, in keeping with the Torah mandate that a Jew who is ordered to kill another Jew under threat of his own death, should sacrifice his/her own life first, or...
2) Comply with his orders out of fear for their own lives.
Shifrah and Puah were on a very high spiritual level - obviously the type of women who would not hesitate to follow the way of the Torah, and to sacrifice their own lives for the sake of other Jews. Instead, they accept their mission from Pharoah, and then do exactly the opposite of what he commands. Why this rather convoluted strategy? Considering Shifrah and Puah were not afraid of being put to death by Pharoah for going against his orders, why did they not tell him, "no" to his face? Given their spiritual greatness, the approach they chose was definitely not an act of cowardice, but instead something more premeditated.
Shifrah and Puah's greatness does not lie only in the fact that they did not kill their fellow Jews. This we expect from every Jewish woman. Rather, what is extraordinary is that, under the circumstances, they had the cool and the ability to think and come up with an original solution. They knew that saying "no" to Pharoah and losing their lives would only result in the appointment of another two Jewish midwives for the task. These two might be spiritually weaker and willing to give in to Pharoah's demand, with the resulting termination of the Jewish Nation. So they say "yes" to Pharoah while, to themselves they said, "we'll find a way to get out of this, but we won't give Pharoah the option to approach other midwives, because we don't know who those others will be."
In contriving his plan of infanticide, Pharoah did not reckon with Shifrah and Puah's fear of God. The Torah tells us, "the midwives feared God and they did not do as the king of Egypt spoke to them" The text continues, "and they caused the boys to live" (Shemos, 1:17). In other words, the midwives' commitment to God included a commitment to the promulgation of the Jewish people, which they expressed not only by saving the lives of Jewish-born infants, but by doing everything in their power to care for them after birth. Further, the Midrash tells us that they prayed to God to preserve even the babies who were to die of natural causes, in order to avoid giving Pharoah the impression that they were in fact abiding by his decree.
Pharoah eventually summons Shifrah and Puah, and asks them, "How is it that you are not doing my job, whatever I told you to do?" They respond, "the Hebrew women are unlike the Egyptian women, for they are experts; before the midwife comes to them, they have given birth" (Shemos 1:19). The two midwives contend that there is only the afterbirth left by the time they arrive, and that to kill the newly born infants at this point would be to reveal their role as Pharoah's secret agents. This, Shifrah and Puah argue, would only cause the Jewish women to further deceive them, by giving later due dates, in which case they would never know when a birth was taking place. Shifrah and Puah convinced Pharoah to continue using their services, which enabled them to continue to preserve the Jewish people.
Subsequently, the Torah text tells us, "God benefited the midwives" and that, "the people increased and became very strong" (Exodus 1:19). Why are these two ideas placed together? And why are they followed by, "And it was because the midwives feared God that He made them houses" (Exodus 1:21). This last statement seems as though it should follow, "God benefited the midwives," as an explanation of the type of reward God gave them for their commitment.
The Or HaChaim (R' Chaim ben Attar, 1696-1743) explains that this seeming interruption - that the Jewish nation multiplied and got very strong - is part of the reward, in two ways. In one way, every baby that was born and remained alive was credited to Shifrah and Puah. Essentially, the Jewish people prospered in the merit of these two women. Even more beautiful, perhaps, is the second explanation that implies they sought no reward from God, but wanted only to serve Him as instruments for the survival of the Jewish people.
At this point in the text, the Torah introduces another story that further highlights the greatness of Shifrah and Puah, which we will explore in our next installment.
Women in Judaism, Copyright (c) 2000 by Mrs. Leah Kohn and ProjectGenesis, Inc.
See also : http://www.chabad.org/theJewishWoman/article_cdo/aid/461823/jewish/Midwives.htm
"G‑d bestowed goodness upon the midwives, and the people multiplied and became very strong. It was because the midwives feared God, that He made houses for them." (Exodus 1:20-21)
The "Houses" G‑d made for Shifra and Puah were in fact dynasties born through them. Our Sages explain that Shifra was a pseudonym for Jochebed, and Puah was another name for Miriam. The name "Shifra" comes from the Hebrew word "meshaperet" which means "to beautify", and/or "to swaddle and clean" (i.e. a baby). Miriam was called Puah, from the Hebrew verb "Po’ah" that means "cry, coo or groan" because of the way she soothed and cooed the crying newborn infants.
Jochebed was blessed to give birth not only to her daughter Miriam, but also to Moses and Aaron. Through Jochebed (Shifra), a nation of priests was born. And Miriam (Puah) was blessed to mother the Royal dynasty, the "House of David."
There is something about being present at a birth… about standing at the threshold between born and unborn that transforms a person. Perhaps it is because of their trade that Shifra and Puah developed such faith in their conviction. Perhaps it was because they witnessed the miracle of life unfold before their eyes that they found the strength to face the challenge to kill or be killed… and overcome it with power and grace.
Shifra and Puah never entertained the idea of fighting G‑d’s will. Instead, they fought for G‑d’s will. And they won. This strength has been handed down all the way from our ancestral midwives to the modern midwives of today. May G‑d bless them to continue in the paths of Shifra and Puah, fearing G‑d, not man, and through their faith in the G‑dliness of birth, bless them to be His partners in creation.
http://rabbibuchwald.njop.org/2006/01/16/shemot-5766-2006/
-
There are many sages who disagree with that interpretation that the midwives performed any infanticide.
You misunderstood what I was saying.
I didn't say anywhere that the midwives performed infanticide. To the contrary. The midwives themselves were G-D fearing women who would not perform infanticide. The pirush of the Rashbam and the Tur is that "Vayiven Lahem Batim" he built clinics in spite of them - i.e. - because he knew that he would not be able to kill Jewish boys through the midwives.
The accusation is against Jewish women themselves, who wilfully visited these clinics. If the Jewish women had universally rejected the clinics, Pharaoh would not have been able to execute Jewish baby boys.
Bachamal, are you currently in Israel? Just curious.
No, I live in Canada... I would LOVE to move to Israel, but I don't have the physical health to undergo such a move in my life right now. I am also very worried like you about the attack on personal liberties in Israel as well. I would at least want a 1911 and a Winchester for personal protection. I can't reconcile with myself the idea of living in Israel without firearms.
-
You misunderstood what I was saying.
I didn't say anywhere that the midwives performed infanticide. To the contrary. The midwives themselves were G-D fearing women who would not perform infanticide. The pirush of the Rashbam and the Tur is that "Vayiven Lahem Batim" he built clinics in spite of them - i.e. - because he knew that he would not be able to kill Jewish boys through the midwives.
The accusation is against Jewish women themselves, who wilfully visited these clinics. If the Jewish women had universally rejected the clinics, Pharaoh would not have been able to execute Jewish baby boys.
I have heard this before, and my point is, that there are many more sages who interpret this to mean that "Hashem establishes 'Houses' for the midwives" meaning that their descendents would be Kohanim and The Moshiach...
I also heard it explained that Pharoah had to resort to the 'Throw all the male babies into the Nile' tactic because killing them at birth was just not working at all..
http://www.torah.org/learning/rabbis-notebook/5759/shemos.html
This terrible decree followed an earlier attempt on Pharaoh's part to enlist the Jewish midwives in a conspiracy to kill the male newborns at birth. The two midwives, Shifra and Pooah, were reputed to have been Yocheved and Miriam, mother and sister of Moshe. (Sotah 11b). It was partially because the midwives refused to participate in Pharaoh's conspiracy, that G-d rewarded them with being the purveyors of both the Redeemer's birth and Pharaoh's eventual demise. It is interesting to note that had Pharaoh been more direct and started with the royal decree of, "drown all male children" rather than attempting to enlist the help of the midwives, Yocheved and Miriam might not have had the opportunity to merit Moshe's birth.
-
בס''ד
First of all, this is the type of thread that scares away women members. Why in the world would we post something so insulting to women? If not for righteous women, Chazal teach us, we would never have been liberated from slavery in Egypt. Heroic Hebrew midwives risked their lives by refusing Pharoah's order to murder all male Hebrew babies. And when the Hebrew men had decided to not have children any more because they did not want to bring children into the cruel world of slavery, it was the Hebrew women who convinced them that they had to continue to have children. And when the Hebrew men sinned with the Golden Calf, the Hebrew women did not participate in that terrible sin. And when the Hebrew men listened to the spies who told them not to conquer the land of Israel because it was "impractical" and "unrealistic", the Hebrew women trusted Hashem and wanted to go forward with the conquest.
As far as this defeatist talk about not making aliyah, this is why there was a physical holocaust in Europe and a spiritual holocaust in the United States. Making aliyah is not an option, it is a mitzvah (commandment). The galut (exile) is a punishment. You think conditions are bad in Israel today? Israel today is paradise compared to what it was 100 years ago when the chalutzim (pioneers) settled the land. There is no future for Jews outside of Israel.
What is the Torah view?
לעולם ידור אדם בארץ ישראל אפילו בעיר שרובה עובדי כוכבים, ואל ידור בחו"ל ואפילו בעיר שרובה ישראל , שכל הדר בארץ ישראל - דומה כמי שיש לו אלוה, וכל הדר בחוצה לארץ - דומה כמי שאין לו אלוה, שנא' (ויקרא כה): "לתת לכם את ארץ כנען - להיות לכם לאלהים". וכל שאינו דר בארץ אין לו אלוה?! אלא לומר לך: כל הדר בחו"ל - כאילו עובד עבודת כוכבים; וכן בדוד הוא אומר: (שמואל א, כו) "כי גרשוני היום מהסתפח בנחלת ה' לאמר לך עבוד אלהים אחרים", וכי מי אמר לו לדוד לך עבוד אלהים אחרים? אלא לומר לך: כל הדר בחו"ל - כאילו עובד עבודת כוכבים. (מסכת כתובות דף קי ע"ב)
Translation:
A Jew must always live in the land of Israel even in a city where the majority are idolators, and not live outside of the land even in a city where the majority are Jews, because all who live in the land of Israel are like one who has a G-d, and all who live outside of the land are like one who has no G-d, as it is written in Vayikra 25 [Leviticus in the Torah]: "To give you the land of Canaan, to be for you a G-d". And all who do not live in the land have no G-d? It is to say: all who live outside of the land, it is as if they worship idols as it is written in Samuel 1:26:"For they have expelled me today from being part of the inheritance of G-d to say, 'Go worship other gods'"....(Masechet Ktuvot 100:72)
Explanation:
1. In other words, Torah Judaism teaches us that living in Israel even in a city where the majority of inhabitants are idol-worshippers is preferable to living outside of the land even in a city where the majority are Jews. So Judea and Samaria (which is 80% Arab Nazis versus 20% Jews) is far preferable to Boro Park or Kew Gardens Hills or Monsey where 90% of the residents are Orthodox Jews.
2. A Jew who lives outside of Israel is like a Jew with no G-d and an idol-worshipper. A Jew who lives in Israel is like a Jew with a G-d.
Can someone live in Israel and still be an evil traitor? Of course. Traitors are not living there for the right reason. But for Jews who believe, there is no alternative to living in Israel now that we are able to do so.
The Chozon Ish said: Who keeps mitzvohs in our time and is still considered a non believer? Anyone who claims that it is the fault of the rabbis that 6 million Jews were murdered in Europe, and anyone who celebrates Yom Haatzmi'ut.
Rabbi Elchonon Wasserman said: "It is certain as the sun shines that the Land will vomit the Zionists out, because the Land is the Palace of the King....I don't say this either to curse or to bless, but because these are things which are written in the Torah and which will take place."
The Chafetz Chaim said: "In my opinion it is clear that the Zionists are from the offspring of AMALEK."
Rav Hutner explained that Zionism caused the Holocaust.
-
Rothstein, go crawl back into the hole you just came out of.
Admins =
Please ban him.
-
Rothstein, go crawl back into the hole you just came out of.
Admins =
Please ban him.
I concur. This heretic must be banned. All but the most hare-brained sages have blessed the current ingathering as the beginning of the promised redemption. Those so-called sages who prevent the Jewish redemption are equal to the spies who speak evil of the land, and they will never be allowed to enter the land, they will die in the desert.
It is sad that this Rothstein thinks he is Jewish and yet speaks evil of Hashem and his land. But he should find one of those stinking anti-zionist sites to plaster his blasphemy.
-
I heard of Litvishers who are praising Obama's election because of the extra handouts they'll be receiving...
-
I heard of Litvishers who are praising Obama's election because of the extra handouts they'll be receiving...
What does this have to do with the discussion? Also what 'Litvishers' are you talking about?
-
I was pointing out that this anti-Zionist attitude is more commonly found among Litvishers.
-
Rothstein, go crawl back into the hole you just came out of.
Admins =
Please ban him.
Why not debate him?
-
Let me tell you guys something about women and virginity. Unless you're dealing with Orthodox Jews or religious conservative Christians, women who are virgins after age 20, or even sooner are seen as damaged goods. I've experienced this first hand with dates and gynecologists. Most average men (Jews included, I hate to say) want a woman who has been broken in properly (pun intended).
In her excellent book "A Return To Modesty" author Wendy Shalit wrote about a young girl whose boyfriend lost interest in her when he found out she was a virgin.
Also there was an article a while back on Salon.com about this same topic. Women in their 20's whose boyfriends learned of their virginity dumped them.
Now if you really want more examples, I'll be happy to go into detail.
I think it's the opposite. People should view non-virgins as used or damaged goods. People who think otherwise have an Orwellian thought process. A virgin is like unused goods. I mean look at the definition of virgin. Or even virgin olive oil (Which costs more than other olive oil.).
-
Why not debate him?
This debate has been going on for as long as the modern state exists. Most of us have been down the road before. I have tried debating with these so-called religious anti-zionists. They have a point which cannot be dislodged, that the 'three oaths' are still in effect. These oaths, according to Aggadah, were made by the Jewish people. One of them includes the promise of the Jews to not enter the land again until Hashem sends his righteous redeemer Moshiach. If one subscribes to this understanding there is no amount of debating which will change their minds.
There most certainly are some gedolim who were staunch anti-zionists. The only thing we can do to debate is to bring those pro-zionist gedolim. But what happens is they will not accept those zionist Rabbis and call them the 'eruv rav' {Mixed multitude}. In our religious zionist view they are the erev rav... What can be done to get past this?
Here is a brief discussion of the issue of the '3 oafs'
http://www.yutorah.org/lectures/lecture.cfm/724623/Rabbi_Moshe_Chaim_Sosevsky/The_Three_Oaths#
-
http://dafyomi.co.il/kesuvos/insites/ks-dt-111.htm
1) THE THREE OATHS OF HASH-M
QUESTION: The Gemara infers from the verse in Shir ha'Shirim (2:7) that Hash-m made two oaths with the Jewish people and one with the nations of the world. The first oath He made with the Jewish people was that the Jewish people will not rebel against the nations of the world. The second oath He made with the Jewish people was that they will not band together and come to Eretz Yisrael by force, like a fortifying wall ("she'Lo Ya'alu Yisrael b'Chomah"). The oath He made with the nations was that they will not subjugate the Jewish people excessively. The Gemara infers from the verse that the consequence of transgressing the oath is that the flesh of the people will become Hefker like the flesh of animals.
If failure to abide by the oaths is punishable, then there must have been an acceptance of the oath by both sides. Where, though, do we find that the Jewish people (or the nations of the world) accepted these oaths?
Moreover, do the warnings contained in these oaths appear anywhere in the Torah? Since a prophet is not permitted to add anything to the Torah (Megilah 3a), it must be that the Torah already prohibits the actions proscribed by the oaths. The Jewish people may not rebel against the nations of the world because the Torah states that only Mashi'ach will have the prerogative to do this. For the same reason, they may not forcefully come to Eretz Yisrael (see following Insight). The nations of the world certainly do not have any right to oppress the Jewish people, even without the oath.
The question remains, however, what is the purpose of these oaths, and in what way is the punishment for their transgression a logical consequence measure for measure?
ANSWERS:
(a) The SEFER HA'AKEIDAH says that the oath that Hash-m made with the Jewish people in the Midbar (see Parshas Netzavim) established an interminable covenant between Hash-m and the Jewish people. By telling the Jewish people that their continued existence depends on their fulfillment of these warnings, Hash-m ensured that at least some part of the Jewish people will always observe these warnings and the nation will not suffer total annihilation.
The Sefer ha'Akeidah explains that this potential annihilation is not a punishment for transgressing the oath, for such a punishment certainly would need mutual consent. Rather, Hash-m told the Jewish people that He will protect them from the nations of the world only if they fulfill the oath. If they do not fulfill the oath, Chas v'Shalom, then Hash-m will leave the Jewish people unprotected, and consequently they will be like Hefker, like animals being hunted (as the Gemara says). This does not need the consent of the Jewish people; Hash-m protects us, and if we are unworthy of His protection He will no longer provide it. In this manner, we may be assured that the Jewish people will always merit Hashem's protection.
The Sefer ha'Akeidah's explanation may be applied to the Gemara here as well. The Torah forbids the Jewish people from transgressing these oaths even without an actual acceptance of them. The point of the oaths is to show the Jewish people that their very existence depends on fulfilling the conditions of the oaths, for if they fail to do so they will forfeit the Divine protection on which their existence depends. This knowledge certainly will stop them from going astray.
The oath made with the nations of the world may also be explained in this way. Although the nations constantly attempt to destroy the Jewish people, there often exist elements among the nations which unexplainably seek to give the Jewish people a respite, because they are aware on some level that without the Jewish people in the world, the world itself would cease to exist.
(b) The AVNEI NEZER (YD 444) explains that the Shevu'ah of the nations was actually made with their governing counterparts ("Sarim") in Shamayim who accepted the Shevu'ah and accepted not to incite their nations against the Jewish people. If they fail to abide by the oath, they are duly punished, for "when Hash-m punishes the nations, He punishes their heavenly governors first" (Mechilta, as quoted by Rashi to Shemos 4:9 and 11:5). When the nation's "Sar" is destroyed, the nation itself is destroyed as well.
Similarly, the oaths of the Jewish people were made with their Neshamos which accepted upon themselves to teach the bodies not to transgress. If the body fails to listen and transgresses, the body is not punished because it did not accept the oath. However, the connection to its Neshamah is broken because it did not listen to its Neshamah and no longer deserves that connection. Hash-m protects the Jewish people only because of their Neshamos. Accordingly, if they do not listen to their Neshamos, Hash-m removes His protection from them and they become Hefker to the forces of the world.
(c) The REBBE of SATMAR (in VA'YOEL MOSHE, Ma'amar Shalosh Shevuos) explains that these oaths were not intended to add any warnings or prohibitions to the laws of the Torah. Rather, one who violates these oaths is considered one who denies the Torah, since the Torah specifies exactly how the Ge'ulah is meant to come about and thus one who attempts to bring it about differently is considered a heretic. (This is similar to the punishment which the members of the tribe of Binyamin suffered when they left Mitzrayim prematurely. They were killed because the time of the redemption had not yet arrived, and thus they were considered heretics.)
The objective of the Shevu'ah is to inform the people of the severity of the punishment, even more than the Shevu'ah which the Jewish people took at Matan Torah itself. (Mordechai Zvi Dicker)
(d) The MAHARAL (in CHIDUSHEI AGADOS) explains that these oaths are decrees (Gezeiros) which Hash-m enacted in order to ensure continuity of the exile which Hash-m decreed. The ability of a distinct nation to be in exile and to remain distinct is an inexplicable phenomenon which cannot be explained according to the natural laws of historical progression. Accordingly, Hash-m established three new requirements: that the nations of the world not strengthen the exile by excessive oppression of the Jewish people, that the Jewish people not weaken the exile by banding together to force their way into Eretz Yisrael, and that the Jewish people not attempt to end the exile by rebelling entirely against the nations of the world. (Mordechai Zvi Dicker)
2) LIVING SINLESS IN ERETZ YISRAEL
QUESTION: Rebbi Elazar states that one who lives in Eretz Yisrael "dwells without sin" ("Nesu Avon"), as the verse says, "One who lives there will not say, 'I am sick;' the nation that dwells there will be forgiven of sin" (Yeshayah 33:24).
How is it possible that every person in Eretz Yisrael lives there without sin? How can this be true if the Jewish people were punished and exiled from Eretz Yisrael for their sins? On the contrary, the RAMBAN (end of Parshas Acharei Mos) writes that only when the Jewish people are in Eretz Yisrael are they punished with exile for sinning, because sins committed in Eretz Yisrael are punished much more severely than sins committed in Chutz la'Aretz. (PNEI YEHOSHUA)
ANSWERS:
(a) RAV YAKOV EMDEN (in Hagahos Ya'avetz) and the IYUN YAKOV explain that living in Eretz Yisrael atones only for less serious sins, and not for serious ones (like Avodah Zarah, Giluy Arayos, and Shefichus Damim, or rebellious sins, "Pesha'im"). The Iyun Yakov also suggests that living in Eretz Yisrael forgives only the sins of individuals who sin in private but not the sins committed collectively by an entire community. The Iyun Yakov adds (in the name of his father) that living in Eretz Yisrael only lessens the sin, making an intentional sin like an unintentional one. This explains why the verse says that they are "Nesu Avon" -- "forgiven of sin," which is the word that refers to intentional sin (as opposed to "Chet" which refers to unintentional sin, which they do have).
(b) The PNEI YEHOSHUA and ETZ YOSEF (in the Ein Yakov) explain that Eretz Yisrael alone does not grant pardon for sins. Rather, one's Teshuvah is accepted more readily in Eretz Yisrael. Alternatively, it is easier to do Teshuvah in Eretz Yisrael because of the Kedushah that exists there.
We may add that the Gemara in Berachos (7a) states that a person is punished for the sins of his fathers when he commits the same acts. The reason for this might be that when a person sins, his acts become such a part of the person that he is able to pass the trait on to his children, who either learn it from him or inherit it from him (see Insights to Shabbos 55:4). A person who lives in Eretz Yisrael, however, is awakened to do Teshuvah so often that any evil traits of his father are not transmitted to him. He is influenced more by the Kedushah of the land than by those evil traits of his father. Therefore, he is free of the "Avon" of his father. When the verse says "Nesu Avon" -- "forgiven of sin," it refers to the "Avon" in the verse, "Poked Avon Avos Al Banim" -- "He remembers (and punishes) the sin of the fathers upon the children" (Shemos 34:7). (M. Kornfeld. The Iyun Yakov also hints to this on 110b, DH Kol, and 111b, DH v'Ken Amru.)
In what way does living in Eretz Yisrael prompt a person to do Teshuvah, more so than living in Chutz la'Aretz? Perhaps the Gemara refers to the teaching of the Sifri cited by Tosfos in Bava Basra (21a, DH Ki mi'Tziyon). The Sifri states that when the people would come to Yerushalayim from all parts of Eretz Yisrael at the time of the festival and witness the immense Kedushah there and the Kohanim as they performed the Avodah in the Beis ha'Mikdash, "their hearts would turn towards the fear of G-d and to the study of Torah." (Even after the destruction of the Beis ha'Mikdash, Yerushalayim remained a city of holiness, where great Tzadikim dwelled to be near the place of the Shechinah.)
.
.
.
.
Read more @ http://dafyomi.co.il/kesuvos/insites/ks-dt-111.htm
-
Why not debate him?
Because it would expose a rift between my Hassidic sect and these Rabbis. Don't get me wrong, I respect the Chafetz Chayim and Rabbi Wasserman, but the Chazon Ish is not held in high esteem within Lubavitch, and I was hoping to avoid bringing this fact to light.
But now that you have brought it up, I will mention that even the Lubavitch Rabbis were anti-Zionist at a certain point. But the Lubabvitcher Rebbe said that now that Israel already exists, we are obligated to support it.
People like Rothstein are trying to exploit the discontent of true Israeli supporters with the current state of affairs. Let me clarify one point: Although I have made some statements with my dissatisfaction with Israeli Jews, I will forever support Israel until I breathe my last dying breath.
-
Because it would expose a rift between my Hassidic sect and these Rabbis. Don't get me wrong, I respect the Chafetz Chayim and Rabbi Wasserman, but the Chazon Ish is not held in high esteem within Lubavitch, and I was hoping to avoid bringing this fact to light.
But now that you have brought it up, I will mention that even the Lubavitch Rabbis were anti-Zionist at a certain point. But the Lubabvitcher Rebbe said that now that Israel already exists, we are obligated to support it.
People like Rothstein are trying to exploit the discontent of true Israeli supporters with the current state of affairs. Let me clarify one point: Although I have made some statements with my dissatisfaction with Israeli Jews, I will forever support Israel until I breathe my last dying breath.
Some troll a few months ago started on a rampage against Chabad and other 'pro-zionist' Hassidic sects. When we debated with him it became clear that he was an anti-zionist and thus he felt a need to attack the Chabad Rebbe. I stood up to this attack and eventually the troll was banned..
I spoke with one of my good Chabad Rabbis about this and he supplied me with a good amount of material discussing which gedolim stood with the Rebbe on these issues.
-
Ooh yeah, g-grandfather was a Levi, what's up baby!!!
Mine also was. My grandmother is a Bat Levi. If my father was the first born, he wouldn't need a Pidyon HaBen.
-
Some troll a few months ago started on a rampage against Chabad and other 'pro-zionist' Hassidic sects. When we debated with him it became clear that he was an anti-zionist and thus he felt a need to attack the Chabad Rebbe. I stood up to this attack and eventually the troll was banned..
I spoke with one of my good Chabad Rabbis about this and he supplied me with a good amount of material discussing which gedolim stood with the Rebbe on these issues.
I saw that post and I remember it clearly, and I greatly appreciate your effort in refuting that individual.
-
I think that Ralph is back.
-
Also remember, Rubystars, that quite sadly Deformed are the majority of U.S. Jewry.
How many of them are actually Jewish though? Intermarriage and fake conversion inflates the number of Deform Jews. There is said to be 6 million Jews in the United States. How many of them are really Jewish? Eventually Orthodox Jews will be the majority as the others slowly diaspear.