Any Messianic Jews on here?

[Christian Zionist]

We have a lot of pressing issues in common to address:

* Fag Agenda
* Abortionists
* Big Government Liberals / Conspiracy to increase taxes
* New World Order Traitors
* Anti-Gun groups
* Islam
* Communism/socialism
* Anti-Zionism
* Black Agenda and many more!

Why do some idiotic people repeatedly bring up issues which cause confusion in the forum?

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

A Jew who converted to Xtianity is still a Jew according to halachic (sp?) law if I am not mistaken, and obviously is still a Jew in terms of blood/genetics.

I imagine many people would have many differing opinions on this however...

Religion is a belief, not a genetic trait. You can't take DNA tests of random people and find out who's Jewish or not.

if that's true, then why are some genetic disorders, like Tay-Sachs, much more common with Jews than with other groups?

That question didn't even make sense.

[Rubystars]

Tay Sachs is more common among Ashkenazi groups but if you're not of Ashkenazi descent then I don't think you're at higher risk of having a baby with it.

[q_q_]

even amongst ashkenazim I don't think it's -that- common  Most ashkenazim barely know people with it..  There's the story of some guy's sister that is very ill, but you hardly know the guy

Thing is, you can be tested before marriage.. It may be only disasterous if both are carriers. depending on how the disease works. And they know for example, with tay sachs. It's not something people really worry about that much.

The important thing with marriage is the pre-nuptial agreement! I don't know much about it, but for jews it deals with the issue of the Get.  For a jewish marriage, divorce requires the man to give the wife a "get" and the wife accept. So both have to agree to it. It is possible for one to not do it, and then they're boht stuck. If the man's a real bad guy.  Typically it's the man that withholds it, and the woman can't remarry. So there are these pre-nuptial agreements you can do before the marriage that deal with that problem.

And of course genetic tests for tay sachs are a good idea.. for ashkenazim.

It is quite rare. You do get the odd person in a wheelchair from some motor neurone disease.  Coming to think about it, I have seen it once or twice..
It is avoidable with the tests.

but consider how many people die of cancer.  That's WAY more common..  Must be at least 1/10

[Rubystars]

Some cancer genes are also more common among Ashkenazi Jewish people. I did a report on genetic profiling a while back where insurance companies and others are trying to get people's genetic information about them, and one of the arguments I used against genetic discrimination is that it targets certain groups, such as Ashkenazim. BRCA-1 and BRCA-2 mutations are more common among Ashkenazi Jewish women.

[Zelhar]

JfJ is not welcome here, so if there were they should leave.

Why? Gentiles welcome, Jews welcome, but Jews that believe in Christ  not...
Can you explain?

JTF welcomes righteous people and rejects evil people. And JFJ are evil because they use treachery, deception and seduction to pray on innocent and ignorant Jews. You can't be a Jewn who believes in Jesus, you were a Jew and you turned away from your people and your religion and accepted another. The only way for you to ever be once again a member of the Jewish people is to do a honest teshuva. Otherwise don't call yourself a Jew cause you're not and that's deceiving. 

[Zelhar]

A Jew who converted to Xtianity is still a Jew according to halachic (sp?) law if I am not mistaken, and obviously is still a Jew in terms of blood/genetics.

I imagine many people would have many differing opinions on this however...

Religion is a belief, not a genetic trait. You can't take DNA tests of random people and find out who's Jewish or not.

if that's true, then why are some genetic disorders, like Tay-Sachs, much more common with Jews than with other groups?

Because most Jews are decedents or partially descended  from a small group of ancestors, there had never been mass conversions to the point of significantly diluting the Jewish ethnic roots. Nevertheless we are not defined by genetics but by religion.

[Scriabin]

We have a lot of pressing issues in common to address:

* Fag Agenda
* Abortionists
* Big Government Liberals / Conspiracy to increase taxes
* New World Order Traitors
* Anti-Gun groups
* Islam
* Communism/socialism
* Anti-Zionism
* Black Agenda and many more!

Why do some idiotic people repeatedly bring up issues which cause confusion in the forum?

All of those issues stem from Feminism.

Feminism perpetuates the insanity in our society.

[muman613]

We have a lot of pressing issues in common to address:

* Fag Agenda
* Abortionists
* Big Government Liberals / Conspiracy to increase taxes
* New World Order Traitors
* Anti-Gun groups
* Islam
* Communism/socialism
* Anti-Zionism
* Black Agenda and many more!

Why do some idiotic people repeatedly bring up issues which cause confusion in the forum?

All of those issues stem from Feminism.

Feminism perpetuates the insanity in our society.

Sounds to me like the goals of the ACLU... I used to think that that organization was for the good. But I also thought the UN was for the good. Only when I grew up did I realize just how evil and perverted these organizations are. There is something deeply flawed about all liberalism, at least in my opinion. There are no universal rights without universal responsibility.

muman613

[Ulli]

A Jew who converted to Xtianity is still a Jew according to halachic (sp?) law if I am not mistaken, and obviously is still a Jew in terms of blood/genetics.

I imagine many people would have many differing opinions on this however...

Religion is a belief, not a genetic trait. You can't take DNA tests of random people and find out who's Jewish or not.

if that's true, then why are some genetic disorders, like Tay-Sachs, much more common with Jews than with other groups?

Because most Jews are decedents or partially descended  from a small group of ancestors, there had never been mass conversions to the point of significantly diluting the Jewish ethnic roots. Nevertheless we are not defined by genetics but by religion.

The Maccabees did 

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

A Jew who converted to Xtianity is still a Jew according to halachic (sp?) law if I am not mistaken, and obviously is still a Jew in terms of blood/genetics.

I imagine many people would have many differing opinions on this however...

Religion is a belief, not a genetic trait. You can't take DNA tests of random people and find out who's Jewish or not.

if that's true, then why are some genetic disorders, like Tay-Sachs, much more common with Jews than with other groups?

Because most Jews are decedents or partially descended  from a small group of ancestors, there had never been mass conversions to the point of significantly diluting the Jewish ethnic roots. Nevertheless we are not defined by genetics but by religion.

The Maccabees did 

 No they did not. It was a few generations later, (and they were not called the Maccabis), and what they did was not correct and their actions were spoken agains't by the leading sages, and on top of that the people they converted ended up backstabbing the Jews, because they were not really Jews, they were Edom, literally.

[Ulli]

A Jew who converted to Xtianity is still a Jew according to halachic (sp?) law if I am not mistaken, and obviously is still a Jew in terms of blood/genetics.

I imagine many people would have many differing opinions on this however...

Religion is a belief, not a genetic trait. You can't take DNA tests of random people and find out who's Jewish or not.

if that's true, then why are some genetic disorders, like Tay-Sachs, much more common with Jews than with other groups?

Because most Jews are decedents or partially descended  from a small group of ancestors, there had never been mass conversions to the point of significantly diluting the Jewish ethnic roots. Nevertheless we are not defined by genetics but by religion.

The Maccabees did 

 No they did not. It was a few generations later, (and they were not called the Maccabis), and what they did was not correct and their actions were spoken agains't by the leading sages, and on top of that the people they converted ended up backstabbing the Jews, because they were not really Jews, they were Edom, literally.

Thank you, I didn't know this.

[q_q_]

Tzvi, do you have a single keyword about this story that can be googled?

[Zelhar]

A Jew who converted to Xtianity is still a Jew according to halachic (sp?) law if I am not mistaken, and obviously is still a Jew in terms of blood/genetics.

I imagine many people would have many differing opinions on this however...

Religion is a belief, not a genetic trait. You can't take DNA tests of random people and find out who's Jewish or not.

if that's true, then why are some genetic disorders, like Tay-Sachs, much more common with Jews than with other groups?

Because most Jews are decedents or partially descended  from a small group of ancestors, there had never been mass conversions to the point of significantly diluting the Jewish ethnic roots. Nevertheless we are not defined by genetics but by religion.

The Maccabees did 

Are you reffering to the forced conversion of edomites by King Alexander Janai ?

[Ulli]

A Jew who converted to Xtianity is still a Jew according to halachic (sp?) law if I am not mistaken, and obviously is still a Jew in terms of blood/genetics.

I imagine many people would have many differing opinions on this however...

Religion is a belief, not a genetic trait. You can't take DNA tests of random people and find out who's Jewish or not.

if that's true, then why are some genetic disorders, like Tay-Sachs, much more common with Jews than with other groups?

Because most Jews are decedents or partially descended  from a small group of ancestors, there had never been mass conversions to the point of significantly diluting the Jewish ethnic roots. Nevertheless we are not defined by genetics but by religion.

The Maccabees did 

Are you reffering to the forced conversion of edomites by King Alexander Janai ?

Before a longer time I have read about the Maccabees.

I remembered there was mentioned, that they proselytized actively.

But Tzvi wrote, that it was actually not the Maccabees, but followers of them.

I have the two books. I will read the whole story if I have some time. 

[q_q_]

I have the two books. I will read the whole story if I have some time. 

what 2 books are you referring to now?

[Ulli]

I have the two books. I will read the whole story if I have some time. 

what 2 books are you referring to now?

1. book of Maccabees

2. book of Maccabees

They are part of the apocryphal section of Luther's bible translation. I think in the catholic bible they are too (but I am not shure).

[MarZutra]

I hope not....  If so, perhaps they might tolerate a little education:
http://www.jews4judaism.org/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_download&gid=16&Itemid=47
and/or:
http://www.jews4judaism.org/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_download&gid=5&Itemid=47
and:
http://www.jews4judaism.org/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_download&gid=20&Itemid=47

  

[q_q_]

I hope not....  If so, perhaps they might tolerate a little education:
http://www.jews4judaism.org/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_download&gid=16&Itemid=47
and/or:
http://www.jews4judaism.org/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_download&gid=5&Itemid=47
and:
http://www.jews4judaism.org/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_download&gid=20&Itemid=47

  

This has NOTHING to do with the post or posts above.

What you are talking about is an answer to the question of the topic
" Any Messianic Jews on here?"

And you are saying you hope not. This is what they do.

Be clear. Do you expect people to start downloading PDFs because you misled them into thinking the context was something it wasn't!

[Shamgar]

Oooopps, I downloaded them. Note to self, don't wear kippa to next JTF meeting.

[MarZutra]

Of course I was responding to the question of the topic as that is normally what one does is it not? 

"Be clear. Do you expect people to start downloading PDFs because you misled them into thinking the context was something it wasn't!"

I'm VERY clear as to what I've posted, if one cared to read the first line in every link: Jews4Judaism.....  The PDF's are quite good if you'd be open minded enough to actually read them and inform yourself that is DIRECTLY related to the subject of this particular thread: Messianic "Jews" and my hopes that there aren't any here...

Further the statement made my Shamgar, if I am understanding you correctly, seems to be one of mockery and too insult as another who will not read about what it means to be a Jew not a Messianic "Jew".  If I've misunderstood you... my sincere apologies.  I detest Messianic "Jews"...

[Shamgar]

MarZuta, if you felt that my comment to you was an insult, then I sincerely apologize. I would never insult an ally. As you can tell by my comment, I DID download them and I DID read them.

Yes, I am a Christian and do stronly believe in Jesus. But I don't convert Jews or anyone else for that matter. It is a full time job just to try and lead myself in a reightous life.

Much of my humor is "tongue in cheek", and I am sorry if it was misinterpreted.


Sham out!

[q_q_]

MarZutra is probably referring to my comment and mistakenly attributed it to you shamgar..

MarZutra-  If you don't quote somebody then one has to suspect that you are responding to the posts above. If you are not, as you are not, then you should explicitly say what you are referring to.
You might want to explicitly say anyway.

i.e.  Any messianic jews here? I hope not..  This is what they do - links follow.

Of course, your bad netiquette then made shamgar(a christian I presume) download your material, which is for jews, to counter missionaries. 

It made me download some PDFs, which though very good, are of no immediate interest to me. And I wouldn't have wanted to download PDFs just for that.
If you have somebody's trust of your judgement, and you provide a link, then they may well look at it.  In which case, you should be clear what it is.

[MarZutra]

No worries Shamgar.  Apologies accepted.     We have bigger fish to fry...

As with direct regards to q_q_, this is a Jewish forum where Judaism is one of, if not the moral guideline.  I, personally, hold disdain for Messianic "Jews" as their entire agenda is to Missionize and convert the ignorant Jews away from their entire being to which those pdf files are to the ut-most level of importance.

No further commentary is needed with respect to this subject. 

As Nik would say.....  Ol-MarZutra out....

[White Israelite]

While I am not Messianic, I know of someone who is on Paltalk. She kept speaking about her messiah and trying to "convert" me so to speak. Other Jews told me the messianic movement is a scam to steal Jewish souls, so i've always kept my distance. While she says she's pro Israel, I don't believe what she believes. No thanks for people who want to save my soul, i'm a Jew, not a Christian.